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Nine Key Areas To Help Transform Your Life and Business With Mark Hiddleson

Mark Hiddleson

Mark Hiddleson is the Owner of Specialized Storage Solutions, Inc., a nationwide logistics company with industry-leading warehouse storage solutions. It provides clients with innovative products, facility layouts, and designs to optimize their logistics operations.

Mark has several decades of service experience in the warehousing and logistics industry, with leadership roles in several professional industry organizations. Using a holistic approach, he also has experience in equipment material handling, operations management, supply chain optimization, professional development, and public speaking. He holds a bachelor’s in economics and a master's degree in holistic health education.

Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn:

  • Mark Hiddleson discusses the integral transformative practice of the knight and victim

  • How to handle bullying

  • The difference between transformational learning and informational learning

  • The nine key areas of integral transformative practice

  • Mark's tips for cultivating relationships and supporting community development

  • The archetypal lifecycle

In this episode…

Having a victim mentality can harm both your personal and professional life — preventing you from living a fulfilled life. Negative experiences, however, can be a catalyst for reversing victim mentality and lead to a better life.

So what practices can you use to positively transform your life?

In this episode of The Tao of Pizza Podcast, Dr. Jeremy Weisz, Co-founder of Rise25, interviews Mark Hiddleson about the nine areas of integral transformative practice. They also discuss the concept of transformational learning, tips for cultivating great relationships, and the benefits of gratitude.

Resources mentioned in this episode:

Sponsor for this episode...

This episode is brought to you by Specialized Storage Solutions Inc.


I have been in the logistics and storage industry for several decades. I know I don’t look that old, but it's true.

We provide industry-leading warehouse storage solutions nationwide.

So basically, if you have a warehouse that needs Rack, Shelving, Carts, Conveyors, or Mezzanines, we help engineering, installations, inspections, and repairs to help clients optimize their logistics operations.

Sometimes people don’t even realize that we can actually help with permit acquisition services.

We take a holistic look at your entire business supply chain ecosystem to develop the resources for continually improving your operation.

To learn more, visit or give us a call at (707) 732-3892. One of the best ways to learn more about our products and services is to follow us on Instagram. And there’s a link on our website to do that.

I will even give you my personal email address for podcast listeners, so email me at if you’re ready to take your warehouse storage and retrieval systems to the next level.

Episode Transcript:

Intro 0:01

Welcome to The Tao of Pizza where we feature top logistics leaders, entrepreneurs, and supply chain innovators and share their inspiring stories with a holistic twist.

Mark Hiddleson 0:17

Mark Hiddleson here host of The Tao of Pizza Podcast we're here to talk with top industry innovators in the warehousing, logistics, and supply chain business with a holistic twist. Before I introduce today's guest, I want to mention I had a great conversation with Vicki Dello Joio last week and also Sal Fateen is a 50-year industry veteran and is in our industry. Both those podcasts are awesome. Check them out when you have a chance. Today I have Dr. Jeremy Weiss here, Rhys 25 has done 1000s of interviews with successful entrepreneurs and CEOs. And we flip the script today and he'll be interviewing me, Jeremy, good to see you,

Jeremy Weisz 0:57

Mark, thanks for having me. And if anyone's listening to any of the past episodes of yours, they should and then the ones that we've done together. If you listen to them, they're about the different archetypes and how can use them in your life in your business. And so this is going to be one that is integral transformer practice, specifically of the night and the victim. And we'll explain what that is. How do you use it before we get to it? You know, this episode is brought to you by specialized storage solutions. And I know arc anyone who knows you, you've been in this industry for decades at this point and you provide industry leading warehouse storage solutions. So anything that someone needs if they have a question, if they need something, you if you don't know it, you'll find someone who does you'll find somebody who can help. So if you need rack shelving, carts, conveyors, mezzanines, design, engineering, installations, inspections, repairs, anything, any of the above call Mark and his team, they've been doing it for a long time. And sometimes people don't even realize that you actually help with permit acquisition services to so you take a holistic approach to business because of the whole supply chain ecosystem. It needs everything to function properly. So learn more go to special Or they can give you a call 707-732-3892 You even decided to leave your personal email IF listeners have questions. So Mark Tomorrow I'll start us off with the intercoastal transformative practice the night and victim

Mark Hiddleson 2:33

Okay, thanks, Jeremy. Thanks for the the that's a great, I like the way you do the commercial better than I do. To start having you to read it every time. It makes me I want to call myself and ask a question. That's kind of out so so the night in the victim in, we've already done six of these, we've we've done the integral worldview in the clown in the Don Juan archetype and mission and vision and integral speech of the messenger. And I mentioned Vicki, I wanted to give her a shout out she is when it comes to messengers, she has been one of the great master teachers in my life. So definitely wanna make sure people check out that podcast he really embodies that that messenger archetype and then action through the lens of the prostitute, prostitute not being that we sell our bodies but you know, sometimes we sell out for you know, making choices in the way we do things and then the fifth was the economic economic, you know, making money through the lens of what what do we do through the child? And so yeah, in a lot of ways the child archetype in in how you create value and how you make money and develop relationships, and I found that being a child because I found mentors over the years so and also child embraces the excitement and the curiosity, and that's a big part and we went through a lot of different ways to to develop your integral economy. And then the last one we did was integral effort, right? You don't want to burn yourself out and then some people you know, I think working hard, is is a given. And, but I think burnout and integrating the shadow in the saboteur was the archetype of Luca that was kind of a perfect archetype for that integral effort because a lot of times you can sabotage yourself by trying too hard and burnout and not really valuing downtime and in seasons and just a way to have balance and still achieve your highest goals most ambitious goals now we had to wait till seven for the night which if it was up to me, I want to tell them all through the knight in shining armor. That's that's what I'm getting at right now. And these last few you know, the night the victim it's two different archetypes, but chose to have them both because they sort of, you know, everybody plays the victim at some point in life because, you know, they're suffering we all we all get our fair share, you know, but but the victim can be a guide on the journey of creating our own personalized practice that keeps us focused on you know, moment to moment what's really available to you know, people or groups and, and the night and victim are related in complementary because, you know, the, the knight in shining armor needs a victim to rescue and then the victim, you know that the damsel in distress needs one to save him so, so they, they play off of each other. But also, what's interesting is there's the shadow, you know, and that's one of the things we talked about integral is not just the great things about being the knight in shining armor, but the the shadow of the night is similar to the victim that the shadow side is becoming a bully, in on MTV can think of it gets some of my favorite examples is I've met people that they're super empowered, it's I don't want to you mentioned we do the permit processing. But a lot of times when when I'm getting bullied, is when you're working with somebody who's in a position of authority. And a lot of times, you know, building departments, but all the ones I deal with, they're, they're beautiful, they've done this integral work already. And they're practicing the stuff. But as a rule, sometimes when you're dealing with public officials or anything, they have a complex and I'm always thinking man, this get this person was probably bully locker room, or at some point, and they were a victim, and now they're doing it to me, and and it's also I'll be honest with it, you know, in having the night as one of the archetypes that before I was doing any of this work, it's the one that I would kind of identify with, just without really examining anything, it's like, yeah, well, I want to be, you know, I want to be this the Savior. And the shadow side of that is, is being a bully. And it's, it's been humbling for me to look at, you know, times where, where I have, you know, embody that bully archetype. So for me integrating that is making sure that even when I have power in relationships, and I can, you know, like one thing I do, I don't go over people's heads. A lot of people I work with my business, I know their boss, or have a personal relationship with their boss. And we can get into situations that really need to be worked out between us. And where there would be a tendency, and I've heard, I've had my clients tell me other companies who do this, and they say, they're only going to talk to the highest level person that they know, in the company, and they really don't want to deal with anyone else, I try to really make it a point of matter who I'm dealing with, that I give them, you know, sort of give them the upper hand, and not really play the victim role. But, you know, embody that, you know, integrate that archetype is like, we're going to work this out, I'm not gonna go over your head. And just other ways, you know, I can be a bully, and just try to integrate it.

Jeremy Weisz 8:11

Because one of the other episodes we did talk about, Mark we talked about before agreements, and I feel like when you recognize this victim, or if you're being bullied with interesting, your perspective, is to not take it personally, you know, which is one of the Four Agreements and just recognize, well, maybe this is something that that person is dealing with. And so it probably helps you handle it in more of an elegant fashion, I'm sure if you recognize as opposed to taking it personally and then lashing back.

Mark Hiddleson 8:43

Yeah, yeah, it's a is grace under pressure because it's what's interesting isn't natural, my natural thing is just like a shake up. But it's not it's part of the practices is experiencing that and knowing it's real in and then you know, choosing and I have a I'll do later and it'll tell you I have a grace acronym. I love acronyms because l certain number but the. Yeah, it's great. And it's humility to because I've seen, like I said, sometimes it's embarrassing when I look back and see where I have acted in situations. So want to limit that limit that exposure in the, you know, embody grace.

Jeremy Weisz 9:28

In part of this, when we think of an integral transformative practice, there's a transformational learning piece.

Mark Hiddleson 9:37

Which is it's different and it's important, I think, to make that distinction, really this whole work, and, you know, looking at integral transformative practice. It's really the whole thing. It says every single one of these practices is going through looking at your worldview, looking at your mission and vision and being honest about you know, how it relates to Our life in our experience, but transformational learning is different than informational learning. Right? Like right now there's access to tons of information, you could overwhelm yourself with the amount of information. But transformation, a lot of times happens with experience that alters the way you experience life for me, you know, some of the ones that that just happen is, when my kids were born, you know, there was no way I could be ready for, you know, I've had people ask me, How did you know? You ready to have kids? And I'm like, Well, I did it. I mean, even when I thought I did, the second they were born, there's this feeling. And it's a transformation in our whole. That experience alters the way you look at life, including in your connection to others, and even your, your connections to the environment. And when I talk about integral transformative practice, I really talk about deliberately creating situations where you can create those experiences for yourself and not just waiting for for something to happen. And what these experiences do, is that it it helps you break free from, you know, just the way things wound up being a good a lot of people you talk to you say, Well, you know, I do this, because my dad, you know, my dad was an alcoholic, so I'm an alcoholic. So like that, that's just the way it turns out our I'm, and I've even worked with people in in coaching situations where we're working on this specific work, and they'll still say, well, oh, that's because my, the way of my relationship with my dad, so I just anytime is personal authority, I just don't listen, or I won't do what they say. Like, okay, that's, that's the way things wound up being when you can create personal freedom and the archetypes is just one, you know, tool, that, that you can do this, and it will transform your practice. I mean, it includes deep self reflection, questioning who you are examining values, questioning assumptions, that's another one of the Four Agreements, right is don't make

Jeremy Weisz 12:13

don't make assumptions. Yeah.

Mark Hiddleson 12:15

And so, you know, invariably, when you engage in these practices, it uh, you know, it's transformational. And what I found is that, you know, fuels, my creativity, and in capability with what beyond what I thought is possible. I mean, this, this podcast is one of the greatest examples. I mean, I went from five years ago being a podcaster denier doesn't exist, too. Now, I'm hosting them almost in a podcast. And it's it, it's a transformation because my experience of it, and what I see the possibility of it is completely different things are possible that I didn't even think possible

Jeremy Weisz 12:57

for. So I know you've thought about and talked about nine areas of integral transformative practice.

Mark Hiddleson 13:07

There are and I wanted to, I want to get into the nine and I'll probably I could give you a list. And if you can just give me the they'll follow the bouncing ball, there's a short story. And I want to make sure that I this is a lot of the stuff, I took things I learned from other people and I integrate it in, and it will transform the practice is something that I honored percent ripped off from George Leonard and Michael Murphy in their book, The Life We Are Given. So I think if anyone's interested in this, it's one of the best books I've read, I talked a little bit about it with the interview I did with Shawn Phillips, because he was familiar with their work. But The Life We Are Given, I mean, it's just an amazing, you know, roadmap, if you if you want to pursue this type of, you know, self led transformation, it's a great resource. And then I'm just going to share for me, I've been doing it for about 20 years, and just some of the stories that came up for me. But but the basics of you know, integral transformative practice is. And it's really hard so so most people until they're in college or like, so when I had kids, you need to develop frameworks for understanding life early in your life and in the ideas as instead of settling on on those is to learn new frameworks and let them guide you, but never get so comfortable. And I've gone through periods in my life, you know, even personally, there have been 10 years where I didn't adjust the framework of how I was looking at things because it's just that's, we're talking about Chapter One. worldviews are notoriously sticky. I mean, you always take this human tendency to take information and bend it to fit the way you already look at things. And then if something doesn't fit, you just kind of throw it out, you know. And integral transformer practice requires you to identify question when you've been taking for granted. And then, like I said before, it's it's a path that frees you from limiting gripped the way he went, he wound up being. So the first one is, is affirmations. It makes me laugh because of the Stuart Smalley skit on Saturday and live and I think we talked about this in integral speech. Because one of the most important things is how you talk to yourself. And it's funny that early in my life, I was a, I was an athlete, student athlete. And you know, I had coaches back then and coaches talk to people differently. It was more of a and I don't know if the people who listen this podcast are probably old enough to remember a gold Gomer Pile, and he had a sergeant it was always in his face. Just you know, and that's how I use it. That's how I used to talk to myself. I still do it's funny he's like, What do you mean you don't get up get up pull yourself by the bootstraps over what are you doing? I think whoever created that show that that's like a that's like Gomer Pile is alter ego. And I think a lot of people are like that. My friends, athletes, I looked at me like, oh, yeah, yeah, you got to be hard on yourself, you got to be. So I think there's some of that but the Stuart Smalley affirmation that, you know, I'm good enough, I'm smart enough. And Doggone it people like me. It was also in the book, we've brought up a few times How to Win Friends and Influence People, he talks about writing things down on like a three by five card. And there's, there's ways to write affirmations, you know, that you state things in the present tense, you know, I'm a lean, 220 pound, physically fit person who's able to do the things I want to do to have fun, you know, that's an example of an affirmation that I've written down over the years, I don't read it anymore. But you can make affirmations for for lots of different things in your life, one of my mentors actually had a shoebox full of three by five cards. And then they were rubber banded together, it was like different areas that he had created for business for personal. And, you know, affirmations are just a way to sort of generate, generate the results you want for your life and you're not, you're not kicking your own ass. And that leads to a little bit of freedom. And the victim and bully is right there. Right in your your self talk, you can be a bully to yourself that you can be a victim to that voice or you can have a healthy relationship. So

Jeremy Weisz 17:26

the next I love the affirmations. Because when times get tough or things aren't going exactly your way you have that that self talk positive self talk that you could bring up. The next was cardio for kicks.

Mark Hiddleson 17:42

So cardio for kicks, is a cardio it is it is part of the original, George little Michael Murphy practice. And you know, I think it's important to get your heart rate up. And I say for kicks, because like, I know you're a basketball player. And one of the things we had a conversation off air one time that there is no shape, like basketball shape. And when I coached kids, I always used to there was a question I asked the beginning of every season and some kids will remember the most of the time, but I would ask them who invented basketball and why. And you know who it is.

Jeremy Weisz 18:16

I mean, I am gonna give James Naismith I don't know why.

Mark Hiddleson 18:22

But so he was a training elite people in the military, and he wanted, he invented a game that would challenge you with intense physical challenge that was similar to fighting and then also the mental and the very fine motor skills in required because, you know, it's even even try catching a ball or anything, you can catch a ball and catch a ball pretty well. You get my heart rate up around 151 60 coordination is not the same. Concentration is not saying I'm about to die, like a pest that you get standing still, when you're in a dead run, with somebody chasing you and trying to it's like, those reactions are different. And there's something about you know, chasing a ball and just the fine motor skills, the physical motor skills. I mean, there's so many different physical strength. You got these big guys like me, leaning on you. It's a very intense, so when I say cardio for kicks, I mean, I love that, you know, if you if you give me out on the treadmill, and I'm falling, watching something or whatever, it's one thing but if you throw a ball and have to run and chase it, we're going to take that much more deeper, it's going to be that much more meaningful of an experience. And I'm gonna have to have more fun. And the other I've got a good example of the cardio. Two other things one, I had a friend I have a friend who's just he's super Mr. Physical fit and I'm like, I want to be fit enough to do the stuff I want to do. I want to snow ski, I want to water ski want to surf. You know, I'm in my 50s I want to be able to do my 60s 70 As long as I can, but He does his farmer carries with kettlebells, which farmer carry he just carry weight. You know, like he carried 50 yards he like carry 50 yards and then walk 100 yards without and carry it. And I created this practice, which combines that with a dedication of merit. So when I pick up those kettlebells, I'll be picking up a cause, you know, sometimes sometimes it's a friend who's going through something, they'll say, you know, I'm carrying this heavy weight for my friend who's going who's going through something, and then that kind of gives it a kick to because you're not just doing it, you're not just carrying around, you're not just running in circles, you're actually lifting and carrying weight on behalf of it could be anything, sometimes I do it on behalf of homeless sometimes, it's for people who are hungry, sometimes, you know, for people who are suffering from depression and just carry those weights for somebody else. And that's I included in my cardio. For kicks in then cycling is another one because we do an event every year the Cycle for Sight. And another event that Levi's GranFondo, where we do a cycling race that you're gonna have to train for, but it's also the proceeds benefits a group and Cycle for Sight. It's wounded warriors and, and the blind, and then leave I love and hammers GranFondo. It's all of that goes to fun at risk youth, which I wasn't at risk youth in joke that I'm still I'm at risk adult. That's why I do all of these practices, because I'm at risk adult. So that's the my cardio for kicks. The next is strength training. Yeah, so strength training is something that, you know, when I kind of grew up in the era where it just became popular and actually didn't embrace it in high school. And unknown, as you know, has always always been a bigger guy always had, you know, kind of good muscles just naturally. And we did a lot of bodyweight stuff in PE or we had a great PE teacher who was actually an ex military guy, and we did, like astronaut bodyweight exercises. And I thought, you know, this is all you really need is is bodyweight training known as sigma Junior in senior year, other schools had started to get a strength training program, I started looking at all these guys that I was stronger. You know, as a sophomore, I was way stronger than just, and then my junior seniors, like, Wow, these guys have been lifting, they've actually physically passed. And so that kind of piqued my interest. But it wasn't until I started studying Shawn Phillips work and Strength for Life. And that, you know, lifting and strength training, you're building resistance, and there's so much changes that happens in your brain, when when you lift heavy things. And I think it's natural, and it's natural for humans to develop the capacity whether, you know, however, they evolved for creating shelter, or, you know, being being able to defend yourself as a tribe. And he had a podcast on fills out a podcast one time was an old one, he had a military guy that was talking about the stress of being in combat in Iraq. And he's, he said, one of the things when we kick us what do you do to decompress? You know, when you come back and avoiding, you'd have to deal with all the stuff you've seen out there and he goes, you know, a man he goes, I go to the gym, because His call was because sometimes it just feels good to lift heavy shit. And so, for me, that's been my go to and it's also it was part of it's part of the George Lerner, Michael Murphy, strength training. It didn't make this stuff up. But it is it's kind of it's one of the another one of those counterintuitive things. And it also has to do with the night and the bully. There's a lot of the people that I saw training when I was in high school there. Matter of fact, there was one guy who ended up becoming a bodybuilder. He was somebody who kind of got teased in the locker room, because he was super buff. It was like really buff, but he was tiny. It was just like there's some people that are born with that body ready just have rippling muscles will our sophomore air is getting teased for being many buff but our junior year, it was really it was worth and doing protein shakes and everything else it was like now you can defend the fort. So I feel

Jeremy Weisz 24:27

like you know those type of things. It gets you out of your head. You know, if you're lifting stuff if you're at least for me, if I'm on the field playing something. I'm not thinking about what happened earlier today or yesterday I'm I'm almost forced to live in that moment and just play you know, the balls whizzing by your head you're not you know daydreaming typically if you aren't, you're gonna get hit but

Mark Hiddleson 24:54

it hurts.

Jeremy Weisz 24:55

But I get that. The next is

Mark Hiddleson 24:59

Qigong Yeah, you said it, you said it perfectly. It's, uh, it's Chi Gong. And there's a million different ways to say it. And I just interviewed, Vicki, they'll join I mentioned she is a chi gong master. She says that she can. I've been saying the Chi Gong. But the other thing about strengthening, I'll say this, my youngest son is 19. And for the past three years, he and I have trained together almost every day. That is something I really hadn't planned on, when when he was younger, I was always trying to get him in the gym, I kind of gave up on it. And then, you know, one day, I think it was halfway through his junior year or something, he just there's a gym in my office, and I used to train five or six days a week, or I'll be honest, three or four. But since with Drake, it's gone to five or six, and they went for me trying to get him in the gym. Now. He's my motivation. And I mean, they're really there isn't anything I would trade for those hours, when we really rarely even willing to say anything. Usually, it's just like, oh, and you know, put some times on there, whatever. And we listen to his music, I let him choreograph the music, because that's different, you know, than what I like. And I like his stuff, you know. But the Chi Gong or Tai Chi Gong or, or Qigong, it's Chi Chi is a Chinese word for energy. And the Kata is what I put in there in the Kata is, is really, it's the whole it's the basis for integral transformative practice. And it's something that George Lerner, Michael Murphy, they created. It's a series of Kata is like a martial arts practice that you go through, on your own. And so it's a bit Qigong. And I just, I just learned this from Vicki from my interview with her is that Qigong isn't really one specific thing. It's a word that they invented in like, 1950, something to sort of name 1000s of practice. And then and she said, there's some debate about this, and I don't know, I'm not an expert on men, she's in the martial arts Roll Hall of Fame, and some of the go with what her version of it is that, you know, Tai Chi would be considered a form of Chi Gong. So we'll Qigong is kind of like a word like dance. And there could be interpretive dance and classical dance, and all these different kinds of dance, Qigong, this kind of the same concept, and that it's really his practices that connect the heavens, which is, you know, that was beyond you, to the physical body, and it's grounded in the earth. And another way of saying it is, is like your intentions, your breath, and the movement as a basis for transformative practice. So there's a lot of another one that I practice with Wendy Palmer, with Aikido, and we'll talk about that a little bit later. But it's still it's a moving practice. It's a it's a centering and the grace, I was going to take credit for the grace acronym, too. And I just realized that's in the book, the life we're getting to, and I've just remembered it, I've been doing it all these years, I claim it for myself. I have a claim for myself, but the grace is gra C, E, and the G is for grounding. And it's really grounding is feeling the weight of gravity, your connection to the earth. And just when you experience the weight, and the pole and your connection to the earth, and that we're really we're energetically and we're connected to the earth, kind of just like a tree, and we're getting energy from the earth, we're getting all of our nourishment and everything you don't think of where your food comes from. And so grounding is sort of the weight of gravity, the R is for relaxation, and the relaxation, because basically it starts from head to toe, you can relax your jaw, your shoulders, your arms, and it's a it's a relaxation, that A is for an awareness. So awareness, you just become more aware of the physical energy around your body, not just in your body, but around your body, but it's just the more intensified awareness. The C is for centering on that everybody has a center in the center. I think I talked about this on one of the first or second ones we did is that having a centering practice and asking yourself is your energy balanced in the front and the back? Because in western civilization, I think basically anywhere I think it's pretty much all cultures, we have a tendency to focus on the energy in front of us because that's what we can see. We don't have eyes in the back your head, I guess you can imagine if you have some animals habit, or they can see behind them, but I think it's a good practice because you do have this energy show behind you and we'll see can you know, it happened to me the other day I can sense someone's look at you, or somebody standing behind you get like chills and then It happened to me the other day was, luckily, it turned out to be my sister in law, but there's this energy centeredness. And you can, she almost burned my house. Now, one time when you guys should tell that story about my sister in law, we'll just say I'll do that when we talk about cultivating relationships or staying current. But the C centering and it's an important part, you know, it's before you start the kata, which is about. And I will put a, on the show notes of the kata, which is a series of, of Qigong exercises. And some of it's a little bit of Qigong is a little bit of yoga. It's a little bit of Aikido because George Leonard was a master Aikido practitioner. But it's the E is energize in the energize yourself through your breath, and then the grounding and relaxation, the awareness, and the centering is all to energize your entire being. And then really open yourself to the process of connecting to the heavens, your physical body and earth. So that's the grace acronym. And if you haven't got anything from this whole episode that grace activism is, it's kind of a cool thing that that you can do on your own.

Jeremy Weisz 31:19

The next mark is journal.

Mark Hiddleson 31:22

So journaling is a practice that. I started actually, when, when my, when my daughter was born, I was expecting I already had a son, I was expecting another son because we had a cardio. When he took the curl, it's not a cardio, it's a sonogram. What do they tell you? In the end? The lady goes, Well, do you want to know the sex? And my wife said no. And I said, Yeah, sure, of course, we want to know. And she said was going to be a boy. So for five or six months, the boys already had names picked out and everything. And some of my wife's like, she could be wrong, she could be wrong. I was like, come on, sis, 20 years Queen of the valley veteran, like this gal knows what she's talking about. And sure enough, I delivered my daughter, because that's one of the things I like to do. And while I was looking for everything that I was expecting, there was a transformation for me, I mean, that in my life, I'm gonna think back to some of the moments. And it was like, while you're going to be the father of a daughter, and it was just something opened up in me that I had access to that I never, I mean, I never even knew it was a possibility of a way of being it to be a father of a daughter. And immediately I started keeping a journal, you know, because I did like this, this is different. And I knew journaling was kind of a good idea. And I've seen him it's like, well, you know, I'll do it if I feel like and probably 10 or 12 years later, I have a friend I call him cause Loski is his real name is what Lansky but he's a rock Zwolinski and I'm gonna have him on the podcast. And he is a he's going to Wharton at the time or just graduated from Wharton Business School super smart guy. And we had kind of a train together, sometimes lifting but we always got together like once a quarter for just like a catch up lunch. And he said some funny things, because he was he was working in pharmacies and heavily in pharmaceuticals and building a company to sell and there's a lot of effort and everything that goes into, you know, flying all over the country, and doing all this stuff. And he's like, you know, because, you know, once we get all this and we build a company, we sell a company, like things are going to be way better. And we were at a restaurant sitting by the river in Napa Valley in like the fall or something. I'm looking around. I'm like, Yeah, cuz this. That's. So I was just talking about practices. And I said, you know, I said, journaling is something that I really get a lot out of, and I go, you know, lately, I haven't and, and I notice it that you know, and he goes, Yeah, well, and I go, I just I haven't had time. And he goes, Yeah, he goes, Man, he goes, Yeah, it goes. It's it's hard to, you know, everybody's busy. It's hard to find time and everything. He goes, he goes whenever you journaling goes, How long do you usually do it? And I go, Oh, like five to seven minutes. And then I'm like, as I said it, I'm thinking who doesn't have five to seven minutes. For a journaling practice it makes such a huge difference. So I'm not 100% on every on anything. I'll admit that. In the journaling. Journaling practices is evolved in all different kinds of things. I mean, I have a family journal where I kind of keep track of some of that stuff. I started with my daughter of God personal journal, business, I'm gonna but I just have different places where I write things down. Since the s in my spacetime, paradigm audit, start with a sketch and that writing things down, there's just something so powerful about writing things down, even just it gets it out of your head. If you're stressed out about something, write it down. If you want to create something, write it down. And then there's something about that writing process that just it's kind of it's another transformative practice. So and then you can also you can go back and read them later, which I haven't done a lot of. But every once in a while, I have some journals that I'll just leave lying around my kids get a hold of it, and then they'll get it. Okay, and they'll start read in. And it's fun, and you will remember stuff and go oh, yeah, I remember why I wrote down. I remember what I was going through. So I love that. That's caused loskis contribution. And I, every time I get out of the habit of if anything that I you know, a lot of meditations I do are five to seven minutes like well, I don't have time I'll have time. No excuse, right? Yeah, yeah.

Jeremy Weisz 36:00

The next one is staying current.

Mark Hiddleson 36:04

Yes. So this is one that I it's important. And what it means is in relationships, whenever you know, if you're in a if you're in relationships, shits gonna happen, you're either that or you're not doing anything. And for me, what's what's really going on, for me currently was thinking of sharing this as that I had these great masters that I've worked with, they could go Julio, Wendy Palmer is another one. And one of the first podcast or actually, I was hosted by Greg Owens on the Watching Paint Dry podcast. And we had this amazing connection that just as a random coincidence. And I believe in coincidences, which means I don't believe in coincidences. And he had practice with Wendy for 25 years and actually personally knows Georgia law. And he's the one he actually replaced George Leonard on the board of integral transformative practice is like an organization that they set this up, and you can do this in groups. And it was just an amazing connection. And he invited me to a Zoom meeting with Wendy, and he said, she hosts these and it's a certain days send that link, and was kind of the same five to seven minute thing. And it wasn't five to seven minutes, or like a half hour to an hour. But I never, I never logged in. Until I had this amazing interview with with Vicki. And I was like, You know what, Matt, now I've got momentum, I'm gonna plug in, I'm going to do the windy thing on on Tuesday. And when I plug in, it's amazing, that group, but she's going through something right now, and I don't even know what it is. But it's a health issue. And she's older. And she wasn't on the call and the whole call that we're dedicating to her, and felt like kind of like a moron, you know, like, God, he waited. And, and now it's a, you missed it or whatever. But I practice with a group of people who were like six or seven people, and they did a lot of the stuff a lot of the stuff that they did as part of the kata or the Qigong, they were doing these, these movements. And I was like, wow, you know, she's influenced 1000s of people with her work. And all the guilt that I had, or anything just completely went away, because I knew, just from her practice, and the type of person was what she would want me is to be, is to be right there, where I was, whether she was there or not, it didn't matter whether I said thank you for everything. Like she's already touched 1000s and 1000s of lives, what she wants me to do is show up and keep and do that practice. And one of the things I'm practicing with this group of people, and it had been years, since I've done it in a group with people, I mean, I do it on my own doing doing something that group is much different. Like, I just had this amazing sense, like, these are the kinds of people that are gonna solve the hard problems that we had today because they're not just talking about it. They're they're embracing things in a healthy way. And now you have this this person of 1000s of followers, there's, there's some boundaries, right? Like, you don't just want everybody calling and saying how, how are you doing? So for me, that that staying current is just in relationships, and I was beating myself up a little bit for for not being there. So I had to get you know, I got to current with myself basically in current with them. I was grateful to them that you know, hey, you guys are carrying this on. Like I don't even really know what's going on, but I feel like I'm At home, these guys didn't even know me. I just showed up because Greg Owens invited me and he wasn't on the call. But I have to get current. So part of my getting current is, and I'm gonna call Greg and I have to share that story with him, because he invited it to me. Four months late on the invitation, I missed it. And then, and you know, part of that staying current is maybe he knows what's going on. And maybe he doesn't, he knows. So it's not the victim or the bully or the knight in shining armor. I'm integrating that practice by just and I don't, you know, there's times where I don't want to, you don't want to get current, it's like, wow, that's, that's kind of icky. It's, I don't want to go there. Because it doesn't feel right, or I made a mistake or something. So staying current is like staying current and in relationships and things like that, even when it's not a warm and fuzzy.

Jeremy Weisz 40:50

Warm the next. Mark is gratitude practice.

Mark Hiddleson 40:56

So I already talked a little bit about that. I mean, I have a few different gratitude practices I do. I mean, one is just getting in the habit of saying thank you, every time anybody does any, anything you know I was, the more you can express gratitude, they're never going to be to like, Oh, that's too much gratitude. You know, no one's ever said, hey, you know, the land a little bit too thick. So, but, uh, you know, I have one that I love that I do every week, because I just have the margin. Now the same at Life happens in the margin, the margin of my planner, I just start jotting down. Every week, I usually start on Monday, if it gets to like Tuesday or Wednesday, I haven't done it. I just start listing out and it's sometimes it's people, you know, my family always makes the cut, but it's simple stuff, my pencils, I'm thankful that I have a phone thankful that, you know, for for just minor stuff. But the most important part of migrante practice, and I think this is what makes it transformational. is ungrateful for the shit that comes up in my life. Because owning that, you know, and goes back to not being a victim. It's it's the shit is the compost. So the bad things that happened to you the experiences. And then that's what a lot of transform transformational experiences that you know, there's not that you didn't ask for there, you know, it's accidents. It's a death in the family. It's, you know, a lost relationship, or, you know, something that's disappointed, but it is a practice for me is like, How can I be grateful for this? How can I compost it into something positive? And if you want to know the side, there's tons of people that are doing science on gratitude practice. And there's, if for people who really want to study the science of it, Andrew Schumann is doing work on gratitude practice. And he's, you know, looking at where they've actually done randomly critically controlled studies. I mean, mine is all anecdotal, right? I heard that was a good idea. So I've been doing it for 20 years, I've found the weeks when I look back, and it's crappier. Those are the crappy aches. So it's 100%. anecdotal, but it's part of the ITP. And I love doing it, especially for the for the stuff that you wouldn't naturally be grateful for, but but find a way for, for doing that. And then also, I'll say one more thing I had, I've had clients coaching clients that I've worked with in the past, and see there's a difference in looking at the world as their life as life is happening to you, or life is happening for you. It's like, it's a different worldview. It's a different framework to look at. And I've had people who have been, you know, there's an I want to be honest about this. I mean, there's people with depression, or you know, they've been victimized, and there's people that I love, respect and know, and it's, they don't know, it, I can't look, it's hard, it's almost impossible for me to look at it like that. So the gratitude practice is, it can be a really healing place, but I'm not just assuming anybody is going to start there. I'm not I'm not in any way. I'm not making the assumption.

Jeremy Weisz 44:09

Yeah, it's a powerful thing. I think there's also books that guide you like The Five Minute Journal, I think it's called that just help guide you through it. So if you're not sure what to do. The next one is cultivating relationships.

Mark Hiddleson 44:25

So really, everything is relationships are everything. And so, all of these, I call it an ecology of practice just because it's not it's an they're all it's really they all kind of go into one and they stay current involves gratitude. And, you know, journaling is how you practice gratitude by writing it down. But the, the it's an ecology of practice, of, you know, I would say, I just wanted to list three things and it's hard to pick three things in this category and cultivating relationships but generosity, compassion and love, I think are the things that if if, if you're creating an ecology of practices with those things in mind, and in with generosity, it's further the shadow side of generosity is. A lot of times in relationships, one of the natural things is to want to share advice. Like, oh, this is what you should do. And that's what I'm not saying. I'm not saying anybody should do this. So that's one, clarification, or may have a relationship to my answer listeners that, hey, if you want to do something, if you want to create traffic transformation in life, if you see opportunities to create more freedom, when it comes to archetypes, and not really just accepting just the way things turn out. Now, it's a great invitation. And I've had a good experience on it. But I don't think it's any one to say, well, you know, everybody should, should do this. And I think generosity, sometimes you go overboard, and you're generous with advice. Be careful, that general I mean, generosity is like generosity of heart generosity of spirit means, am I showing up? Am I making those calls? Am I doing what it takes to stay current? And am I looking at compassion, meaning, shared passion, right, like I have, my passion was not the same as it was other people and I have ants. And even in some of the people, you know, master teachers, the people, I love the people, I look like Sis, you know, sisters, and spirit and all that, I'm really much different than they are if if you started looking at the difference, whether it was you know, sexual orientation, or political, or will they look or the way they talk or anything, it's like, you could you could focus on all these differences. But it's compassion is about the sameness. And then when you get down to when you're really in honest and authentic, and I think authenticity. Now it could add to this, when you're authentic, all you see is the sameness and the differences kind of its differences, like 1%, and then this 99%, same, like, I'm like, you and I were kind of the same. You love, you like to have a good time you like to laugh, you want to, you know, build a business and, and still have fun, but you know, there's a lot of people, there are different, different way different to me. So cultivating relationships, and then what I'll also say, I think I said this on the last one integral effort, and, and victim, you know, bully victim relationships, and this is a you know, compassion involves forgiveness, you know, like, a lot of relationships, almost everybody, I've found this, in my experience, almost everybody needs to forgive their parents for something, and unfortunately, they'll figure it out till you like 40, something. Like, you've, you've been harboring this resentment for your dad, because this, and it's a blind spot, really, most people aren't, they're not because you're not walking around, thinking that thing, but in this victim, and the knight in shining armor, you know, I could see that a lot of the reason why I was trying to be this knight in shining armor, at times was probably inappropriate. And, or, you know, it's whatever it was, it was in reaction to something where I felt victimized, you know, in my childhood. And so, you know, part of it is, is having compassion, and you know, life happens for you, not to you, and both in cultivating those relationships. And then it's also an always, this other thing about integral transformative practice, it's your relationship with yourself. And that's the thing, another blind spot, is a lot of people don't realize that you have a relationship to yourself. And really, to have great relationships, you'd have to have a good relationship with yourself. The other huge one is, I've done this in business, I mean, my whole business, it's so humbling when I think about all the relationships, you know, whenever I thought, if somebody asked me, why did you start your company and then I started to say all these things that had to do with my ego, and I was like, wait a minute, it was a complete group effort of things. People said to me support that I got suggestions. People make great clients, great mentors, great. They were they were business relationships. They were authentic that people saw an opportunity or they wanted to see more for me. It was all of this generosity, compassion, love. All of that is way easier than personal relationships. Personal Relationships are super hard. You know the parent child relationships, and cousins and brothers and sisters. It's one of the books. We've talked about a lot of books on these, like, you know How to Win Friends & Influence People, Think and Grow Rich, and Seven Habits. But there was some advice I got from somewhere. And it was, you know, sometimes you'll get more information from reading the classics. And what they meant by that was like the Greek classics like Socrates or Sophocles, or you know, some of the old because a lot of the stories are the same in relationships and the patterns, energetic patterns, the archetypes, but it's also true, I read recently, I read the book East of Eden by John Steinbeck. And I wanted, I wanted to read it, because it's about California, in the 1900s, and he wrote in, like, 1952, so it's written before I was born. But I love California, like I grew up here I was born in the Central Valley is different because of like the farming, and the community in the relationship. So I wanted to read it for that reason. But he does an amazing job. Like the reason that that is a great American novel, is he deals with all this. So when you read that book, and you see the father, I mean, really what the whole thing is, like 600 pages. And it's basically a translation, a beautiful translation of the story of Cain and Abel, from the Bible from Genesis, and that's why it's called East of Eden, because it's like, we're not in, we're east, we're far. And I was laughing, because I was like, Yeah, I grew up like 37 miles northeast of East of Eden, in the Central Valley. But there is a brings in like the cultural piece. And being in California, and it was different, you know, people were in this was the promised land, right? Originally, the America was the promised land. But then once you got here, it was like heading was a California has always been this huge opportunity. And he just goes through them. And there's tons of archetypes in there, the prostitute archetype is alive. And well, because that's a big part of that. But the the relationships, the relationships between families, father and son, husband, wife, and all the different stories in the way he weaves it together in that book. It was just, it was amazing. And I had a personal connection, because it's California, but I think anybody can read that book. And 600 pages it took, like, it only took me a couple of weeks, because it's one of those ones, you just can't put it down. Because you want to find out, you want to find out what happens. It's such a great storyteller, so

Jeremy Weisz 52:34

much of it. So, you know, on a broader scope, you know, those are kind of cultivating relationships personally. But the next step stage, at a broader level is community development.

Mark Hiddleson 52:47

Yeah, so I think what do you do? You know, what do you do with all these skills? I mean, that's a big, you know, so a big part of my work is how do you feel your passion projects? You know, I mean, because it seems like there's tons of demands on your time, everybody has an important problem that they want to solve. You know, for me, like one of the reasons what started off in this project is I wanted people to look at the way they deal with ecological crisis or social justice. And that, really, you know, when you when you generate when you have relationships, and you've cultivated yourself, and you've done, you know, you've done this work, and it's what project can you get involved with, to make a contribution, because none of it, none of it really matters. Unless you're making a difference in your community and your community. It could be your family, it could be where you live, it could be a community that you identify with, you know, whether it's, it's a social justice issue, or environmental, but you're, you're generating this, this transformation is for a reason. And what it is, is this to fuel, you know, it's not just as a goal to have all this energy, it's, it's the, to generate the fuel to be part of the solution to actually be part of the solution of the problems we see. I mean, I don't think there's, there's not a short list of problems that need to be solved. And I think, you know, people are concerned about and then, and we're not alone. So, you know, investing back in the community also draw a lot of inspiration from community. So anything, that's another thing that's humbling any project, whether it's Cycle for Sight, or, you know, Levi's GranFondo, we're also involved in something called ag for youth. I always give the coaching basketball all the seasons, and not just basketball coach, like 20 or 30 seasons of amateur sports have kids and people are always appreciated, like, Oh, you're volunteering your time is so important. And it is but you have always gotten way more out of it. You know, it's sometimes it's embarrassing. It's like yeah, I will not. I'm looking for another project against another team because notes are another project to lead. So really, it's the purpose of, you know, of the joy in life really is to to find your gifts and share your gifts with with your community. Now to create something, I think it helps. In a personal health, when you when you have your eyes are on focusing on something greater than yourself. It's it takes a lot of the pressure off. So, so community development, community involvement, practicing in the community. And that's what like those ITP communities when I joined that on Tuesday night, I went in there, I mean, they've created a place where, you know, somebody kind of a stranger off the street, who hasn't been involved in it for 20 years can can step into a space, and just immediately feel at home. So, for me, I want to create a moment this podcast is a place like that, where you can come and just go holy, no, this is home, I can use this to fuel a project in my community. And you don't have to start something but getting involved, you know, everybody needs help somebody and a lot of it. The the work, like when I was president of the Warehousing Education and Research Council, it was it was like this high position. So what did it mean? It meant that you were scheduling restaurants, you were setting tables, you were passing out, and then you were printing name tags, you were doing registration, all this stuff that you know, you just show up 15 minutes early and stay 15 minutes late, it's the extra half hour a day to make a contribution. You become a humble servant,

Jeremy Weisz 56:47

I guess we could say your why No, know we're running short on time. But I did want to take some time and talk a little bit about the archetypal lifecycle.

Mark Hiddleson 56:58

Okay. So there's a graphic and all the imagining of the best way, but I'll share it with the archetypal lifestyle, or it's basically a freedom matrix with the archetype and your human potential is, and then there's reasons why the line is shaped like that your human potential over here, you know, when you're young, in your 20s, you're kind of stuck with with your freedom, because you want financial freedom, you and your parents, everything else it costs. But as you get older, that curve starts to get steeper, you know, even, you know, once my kids and I'm kind of at that transitional stage, kids start to move out, I'm gonna have more freedom that I didn't have before. So really personal freedom can go up and up and up and up. The potential and that's like, nobody lives in a vacuum where, you know, that's they're just going to hit this trajectory in their life is going to look like this, what it actually looks like, your lifeline is kind of the squiggly line that goes along, you know, if, if, if you're trying to maximize or optimize your personal trajectory, your actual life is going to kind of zig and zag and swirl around this potential. And then the other parts of that, and these are important down at the at the bottom part of that craft, there's your, your biological, or even, you could call it sometimes called your reptilian brain, where, you know, it's your need for safety, and sex and food and everything else. And that kind of physically in your life, it goes up and down, kind of but in a straight line. And eventually, as you get older and older, all that stuff becomes less important and can kind of goes down even though your potential still going up. So there's, that's the red line, which is like your bylaws, and you have these biological things that are going on with you. And a lot of times the if you get caught up in that and you're just pursuing life for pleasure, you know, pursue these pleasures for your bodily things like, well, I want to have sex with as many people as I can, I want to drink as much of the counterparty as much as I can. And chasing that. It's, it's kind of the more you do it, there's a law of diminishing returns. It's not, it's not great. So, the other line on that graph is, is the green line, which is the social and social cultural line. So in culture, things are always kind of going up and down throughout your life. I remember being young, and everybody you know, there was this hostage situation when I was like eight or 910 You're in Iran and I remember being terrified. It's like wait a minute, anybody can just jump on an airplane and and grab people from America and I'm like, don't we have all these jets and airplanes and nuclear missiles, everything would just go get up right? But it lasted more than a year. And then so there's, we've gone through them recently, you know, the same thing but throughout life. There's kind of a roller coaster of whatever her culture is doing. And that's gonna kind of go and if you get caught up on that roller coaster, there's all these ups and downs, it's not, you know, it's a reality and it does affect you, and it's gonna pull your line down, but but you still your potential is still really turning upward, you know, if you're focused on what he can do over time, and so you don't get caught on the biological roller coaster and you don't get caught on the social roller coaster. And it actually, you know, one of the reasons there's, this could be, it could easily, you know, it could be a three day, I think, a three day or five day workshop, to generate the energy to kind of pull yourself because those roller coasters, it's not like, oh, this roller coaster is just there, it's powerful. You know, your bodily urges is powerful, that urge to procreate, it's like one of the most powerful versions we have there, you know, to eat, whatever you want to eat, or, you know, power control, whatever you need to feel for safety, there are powerful forces and not, you know, so integral transformative practices, kind of keeping, taking you off the gravity or getting you off that roller coaster of, you know, either biological or sociological forces that act on your life. And, and have a trajectory that that looks more like this. And then the last one is your physical capacity for change that and that line, its slope like this, you know, there's a reason that line is slope like this there, it's like a what's the science where you do it's like calculus, or math, you know, there's a reason that the curve is shaped. So your your physical capacity as you when you're younger, it's going up and up and up and up super fast. But then as you get older, it's, you know, your physical by the time you're 20, or 30, you're not getting stronger and more physically capable of change. And then Tom Brady, I was just gonna say, for most people in their 40s, it starts to crest for me, I'm still waiting for it.

Jeremy Weisz 1:02:01

For you, Tom Brady.

Mark Hiddleson 1:02:04

I want to be the Tom Brady of integral transformative practice is one. That's a perfect example. Is that in I want to, there's a TB 12 thing that I've heard of, have you read any of that or anything? He? He's got a great stuff he's written on. It's like, Why has he been able to go so long, and he has a really different approach to training a lot. Like he doesn't do a lot of heavy weight lifting, and he does more strength and flexibility and functional training and things are some. But but that's a perfect example. And I'm glad you brought up Tom Brady, because it saves me the lack of humility. I just when I say that there's a natural tendency, I think, you know, used to be in your 40s. I think it really for everybody. It's kind of moving, you know, with with technology and health, and everything that it's needed more in your 50s and less even people in their 60s Like Mark, I think his name is pronounced sis on system. Have you heard of him? He's? He's not really paid. He's

Jeremy Weisz 1:03:07

like, primal life, I think.

Mark Hiddleson 1:03:09

Got a lot. Yeah. And Joe Ferris, who's on another episode on the podcast, he comes out he really loves that at the end of that guy's in his 60s, I think. And he looks like I looked when I was 25. You know, so, but that physical it does. I mean, eventually, at some point, and then you know, you're playing basketball still. Right? And you're, you know, to me, if he could play as long as you play basketball, you're 25, right, your body's 25. But he does eventually, even even Tom Brady, even, you know, maybe Mark Hilson will start declining. And then pretty soon your physical goes below your actual optimal projection. And so the thing is to get started while you're young. And that's the main thing about the physical is where these intersect. So I went I got long winded on this. So we'll have to have to edit out the slow parts.

Jeremy Weisz 1:04:03

No, no, keep it all in. You keep it all on. Yeah, this is great. Mark. And I think people should check out other episodes of the podcast. You know, especially the one that archetype and how they relate to business and life and other interviews, and special And Mark, you know, thanks so much for having me again.

Mark Hiddleson 1:04:24

Ya know, you've been great Jeremy. Man, this whole thing. Was this a series. This is the seventh or eighth part of what you looked at. It's been amazing. I appreciate your effort.

Jeremy Weisz 1:04:36

Thank you, and look for the next one. Thanks, everyone.

Outro 1:04:39

Thanks for listening to the Tao of Pizza Podcast. We'll see you again next time and be sure to click Subscribe to get future episodes.


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