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The Messenger Archetype - Culture, Gratitude, and Much More With Mark Hiddleson

Updated: Oct 4, 2022

Mark Hiddleson

Mark Hiddleson is the Owner of Specialized Storage Solutions, Inc., a nationwide logistics company with industry-leading warehouse storage solutions. It provides clients with innovative products and facility layouts and designs to optimize their logistics operations.

Mark has several decades of service experience in the warehousing and logistics industry with leadership roles in several professional industry organizations. Using a holistic approach, he also has experience in equipment material handling, operations management, supply chain optimization, professional development, and public speaking. He holds a bachelor’s in economics and a master's degree in holistic health education.

Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn:

  • A brief explanation of the “Clown” and “Don Juan” archetypes and their shadow aspects

  • Hiddleson’s poem, “Cultivating the Creative Force of Chill” and its exploration of self-knowledge

  • The “Messenger” archetype and how it relates to prolific books and the development of language

  • How utilizing gratitude in your personal life and business can affect your growth

  • How to honor yourself and the commitments you make as the “Messenger”

  • Ways in which the “Messenger” archetype applies to gossip and self-affirmation

In this episode…

How do you define what is possible in your life? What is your worldview, and how easy would it be to change it?

The way we perceive the world can be explored through archetypes — a perfect model of an aspect of our being. Dr. Jeremy Weisz and Mark Hiddleson explore the “Messenger” archetype, the one responsible for how we communicate with others and ourselves. They dive into the power of language and the shadow aspects of this archetype, such as gossip, dishonesty, and other limitations.

In this episode of The Tao of Pizza Podcast, host Mark Hiddleson is interviewed by Dr. Jeremy Weisz, the Co-founder of Rise25, to explore the “Messenger” archetype and how language and communication shape our careers and personal lives.

Resources mentioned in this episode:

Sponsor for this episode...

This episode is brought to you by Specialized Storage Solutions Inc.


I have been in the logistics and storage industry for several decades. I know I don’t look that old, but it's true..

We provide industry-leading warehouse storage solutions nationwide.

So basically if you have a warehouse that needs Rack, Shelving, Carts, Conveyors or Mezzanines we help engineering, installations, inspections, and repairs to help clients optimize their logistics operations.

Sometimes people don’t even realize that we can actually help with permit acquisition services.

We take a look holistic at your entire business supply chain ecosystem to develop the resources for continually improving your operation.

To learn more, visit or give us a call at (707) 732-3892. One of the best ways to learn more about our products and services is to follow us on instagram. And there’s a link on our website to do that.

I will even give you my personal email address for podcast listeners so email me at if you’re ready to take your warehouse storage and retrieval systems to the next level.

Episode Transcript:

Intro 0:01

Welcome to The Tao of pizza, where we feature top logistics leaders, entrepreneurs and supply chain innovators and share their inspiring stories with a holistic twist.

Mark Hiddleson 0:14

Mark Hiddleson here, host of The Tao of Pizza Podcast where I talk with top industry innovators in the warehousing, logistics and supply chain business with a holistic twist. I have Dr. Jeremy Weisz here, Rise25 has done thousands of interviews with successful entrepreneurs and CEOs. And we flip the script today and he'll be interviewing me, Jeremy.

Jeremy Weisz 0:34

Mark, I'm excited because you know, you're really you're like a philosopher at heart. Okay. And I get to hear your business philosophy and how you, you know, not just, you really are holistic as far as family and health and business all kind of wrapped into one. But so we're gonna dig into some of the archetypes and how you think about that, and how that integrates into your business, specifically, the integral speech of the lens of the messenger. But before we dig into that this episode is brought to you by specialized storage solutions. And, you know, I know you've been in the logistics and storage industry for several decades, and you provide industry leading warehouse storage solutions nationwide. And so basically what that means for the Layperson is, if you have a warehouse, you need all the stuff that fills the warehouse, you need racks, you need shelving, you need carts, you need conveyors, you need mezzanines, you need you help with the design and engineering and installations and inspections and repairs and anything surrounding that right you are kind of the go to person. And really the strategist for a lot of these things. And you take a holistic approach of that entire business and supply chain and ecosystem to help people develop that operation. And so if you have questions, you can go to They've been doing it for decades and decades, or call them at 707-732-3892. I know, Mark is gives away his personal email address for podcast listeners, you can actually email him at And you can check that out. So Mark, walk me through in order to talk about the integral speech of the through the lens of the messenger. But talk a little bit about kind of where we've come for a second before we go into this.

Mark Hiddleson 2:22

Yeah, thank you. Thanks, Jeremy. So we've done two other recordings, we did one, which was the integral worldview through the lens of the clown archetype. And this is to do a quick explanation of the chapters are set up in a specific order where each chapter sort of creates the container for the next chapter. So you know, for example, worldview, your worldview creates what's possible for you What's, what's the container for what's possible in your life. And we looked at that, through the lens of the clown archetypes and the archetypes is an exercise that I've gone through to just sort of identify with the patterns that I've personally chosen, I did a project on how to do that. And you know, why selected certain archetypes and it's interesting, because I just get the chapters are in order on purpose, but the archetypes had a very scientific way of matching the archetypes up with the chapters, is I wrote them all down, put them in a hat. And then I drew them out one by

Jeremy Weisz 3:23

very scientific,

Mark Hiddleson 3:24

scientific, because I kept track of it. It was a system. But what what's funny to me is this the way they lined up, and you know, it's kind of a self fulfilling prophecy, but they it makes sense. So you know, the world do for me, I chose a con archetype because I liked that we talked about and it's integral. Because we've talked about the shadow aspects, you know, that being a clown is not everything's not a joke. And so, you know, for me, for the clown archetype, I had to learn, you know, when some things I say aren't really funny, and being honest about myself when those things happen, and going back and making amends, but but comedy, and looking at your life, I mean, the questions for the clown worldview, is, can you use comedy, to not take yourself so seriously, because that's something I've done is that, you know, everything is so important is so important. winning the game is so important. So I've used comedy for that to not take myself seriously. And then we also talked about using comedy to challenge the status quo, right the court jester was always built to say things the king, because it was a joke. And, and so things we could talk about things that were kind of uncomfortable. And so talk about that in green shadow, and then the other one was the Don Juan, the integral, mission and vision. So really, your worldview what you think is possible creates what the vision of what you could see you could possibly accomplish in your life. And the Don Juan is another one of those archetypes that I selected because it's I've been in sales my whole life. So there's a lot of you know, the Don Juan is the wheeling, you know, most people think of romantic sense of you know, the Don Juan is always trying to woo somebody from the other sex. And, but it's also all of the archetypes that come into play, whether it's the Don Juan, the novel side of the Don Juan is that you're, you're using your energy and commitment to the practice of getting what you really want out of life. But the, the, I think, and I always think in literature, I think, Don Juan is really romanticized in movies. And, at least for me, I always kind of admired that, that role of the suitor. But there's a shadow side of DONILON. And that is, you know, the inauthenticity of, of saying things that you know, is going to flatter somebody because you want him to like you, you want him to do certain things. And, you know, with training, you can get really skilled at it. And then if you use it for the wrong reasons to manipulate people, and you're not really committed to the practice of serving others, that's sort of the shadow side of the of the Don Juan. And then there's a funny story. Can I share a funny story about that?

Jeremy Weisz 6:07

Your show you could do whatever you want. Yeah, well, well,

Mark Hiddleson 6:09

one of my really good coach, business collaborator, good friends. Share with me a song that reminded him of of me, and it's it's a country song. So I was in I was kind of what what is this? Um, you know, it's country song. They play a lot on popular I know, but it's a in your the, you are already busted. You're the one but it's you made me want to roll my windows down and cruise. And Cruise is the song. Yeah, cruise. And I was like, Well, why? Why that song, you know, but I was flattered. You know, it felt good. It's like having a song. You know, it makes the connection a little closer in because you know, we have a real good relationship. I really remember your

Jeremy Weisz 6:55

That would be your theme song if you're like walking up to the plate batting or something. And you know, the funny thing is, talk about that when I sent that to you and I'm like, this song reminds me of you wasn't because of the Don Juan. I honestly didn't even listen to closely the lyrics, and I had never really watched the video. So when I sent you that YouTube video, link, I never watched the YouTube video. I've only heard the song. Yeah, I didn't even realize what it was about. I just, it was just like an upbeat. Like, you're kind of like an upbeat type of person optimistic, and that's why it was but then I, I watched it and I think your wife may have been CCD on that email. I'm like, Oh, that's not what I meant. I was like, that's not what I meant. I swear. But then I watched a video I'm like, Oh, my God, I had no idea. That's what the song was close enough to the lyrics, I guess.

Mark Hiddleson 7:52

And so the Don Juan part of it is, though, is that it's just doing something, you know, you're sharing what you're doing, you're sharing, there's an intimacy there, right. Like we have something so that's a Don Juan, like, we have something together here. And I know you're being sincere. And the funny thing is, I know you're sincere, because if I find out that you're not sincere, I'm gonna me McDonald's and chase your rear. We know that. But it's a great example of being authentic. It is, it's building relationships, which to me are the most important things in life. For me, it's always been about relationships. And to me, that was just a great example of using the healthy aspect of the Don Juan movie, you see something, something reminds you of something and, you know, share with them. So I appreciated that it was, and then I shared a song. I was like, Well, man, what what song reminds me of Jeremy. So I sent you a link the other day, right? And there's whip it from Devo. So let's take that. Yeah, well, shake it up, whip it up into shape.

Jeremy Weisz 8:59

So check out Florida, Georgia Line cruise and let let us know if that reminds you of Mark if you do know him or not.

Mark Hiddleson 9:06

It reminded me, you know, the cruise thing. It reminded me of a poem that I wrote while I was working on the book. And it's called Creating of cultivating the creative force of chill. And I didn't know if I have the guts to do this, or anything right now. But I do I actually kind of want to, because you really speak into this. I'll read this poem. And, and I'm dedicating it to you for this episode, only. I wrote this poem just trying to figure out like, why I was writing this book, where am I at? What are the important things? And I think it goes, It's perfect with the integral speech and the messenger. So that's the other thing. It was just random that speech and messenger ended up the same chapter because again, I drew it all out. This is the third thing I draw that this is the third chapter.

Jeremy Weisz 10:00

But the messenger is though who you pulled out of that message type, the messenger,

Mark Hiddleson 10:05

the messenger I pulled out of the hat. And so speech is really how we deliver our message. And there's, I mean, speech is important. It's it's the First Amendment, the Constitution, freedom of speech. And it's just such a powerful way for us to connect. And it's not just words, I mean, it's poetry, it's music, you know, messages are verbal, nonverbal, but I really love poetry. And I'm reading this poem, I'm not asking you for your permission. I want to, I want to read it. But cultivate the creative force and chill. When you discover who you truly are, it's time to drive that fancy car, put your foot to the floor, free from worry anymore, because you already know the final score, around second or third gear, you'll feel the flow. Use it for much, much more than making dough. Because that would simply be the essence of a classy Oh, discover what you don't know. You don't know. Remember, you can't get upstream. No matter how hard you row. Integrity will always trump celebrity. Do what you say you'll do. And avoid the people and practice of throwing poop, quietly stay the course of your will, by being completely still cultivate the creative force of chill.

Jeremy Weisz 11:27

Maybe that should be the name of your book.

Mark Hiddleson 11:30

I've had the suggestion, come up. And you know, it's when you said that I'm like, why are you saying because you know, roll your windows down and cruise I've had a lot of people say that, like, I make things look easy. And it's like, sometimes frustrating is gonna man it's not. It's a, but that is part of my personality. Maybe it's the interval worldview of the clown. Like, hey, we're always having fun. We're all this is joyful. And so I appreciate I mean, he sent me that, and it made me think about it. And I'm like, well, that's why, you know, that makes to me, that made a lot of sense. While I use that song reminds me of you because I do want to roll my way. And I liked the video, by the way, I love the video.

Jeremy Weisz 12:12

Well, it's funny, because your poem also incorporates cars into it as well.

Mark Hiddleson 12:17

Yeah, in the car. Is it thank you. So driving the car, that's a metaphor. So that's another message like I really do like cars. But you know, in the poem, what I'm talking about is, you know, when you discover who you are, if you think so, self knowledge or knowing yourself, a lot of people think know yourself means know your autobiography, right? Like I won the math, Super Bowl, 1982 and 93. I was to all the pitcher in baseball, and all these track record. And knowing yourself isn't isn't your autobiography. And that's actually kind of egotistical, knowing yourself is kind of knowing, knowing how other people perceive you, or knowing, you know, the archetypes, the archetypes is, I've been embodying these things my whole life, and it's only the last five or six years that have become aware of it. And then once you're aware of something, then it's not necessarily working on you, you can actually use it. I mean, and again, I want to say it's not perfect execution, because a lot of these things, it's just interesting how humbling it is when when I fall short, on a lot of this stuff.

Jeremy Weisz 13:28

Mark, you also talk about and think about any you said last year as money doesn't pay this year's rent. So what do you what do you mean by that?

Mark Hiddleson 13:38

Well, so language is relatively new on the on the human scene. And I've written a lot about this, and you can get into it. But the theory is that, you know, he was basically created language. So we could cooperate more to solve problems, like how we're going to get our foot in, or how we're going to cooperate with, you know, as tribes, more and more people got together, there had to be ways, you know, better ways of communicating, you know, and I'm assuming I'm not a caveman, and I'm assuming that they're much more involved for well evolved than what we give him credit for. But a lot of communication is nonverbal, but language I think now, we've we're on overload. So so last year's money. What I mean by that is 100,000 years ago, didn't even 10,000 years ago, and 5000 years ago, let's solve some great problems, right? How do we get along? How do we communicate? How do we share values between communities and compare ideas? And none of that is possible without language. And, you know, now, we, you know, there's if you think about the Stone Age, the Agricultural Age, the industrial age, now we're kind of in the post industrial informational age. And, you know, it's like the information war is over. Information one. That was just way too much information. And now it's like, how do you? How do you process it? So what I mean by last year's money doesn't pay this year's rent is I think now, you know, we've inherited these networks of ideas that are so powerful. If you get something that's kind of screwed up in there, it can cause really big problems, you know, so language. And I think it also leads to one of the biggest pathologies or I would call it the shadow the shadow side, which integral integral speech means we're not just talking about the great things about communication, we're talking about the limitations and the challenge. And I think one of the, one of the challenges of language is that it gives us this false sense of knowing, you know, if, you know, knowing, knowing what it's like to love somebody or knowing what love is, isn't the same thing as loving, or knowing, you know, how to make a contribution to your community or their community, you're talking about it right now, isn't the same thing is making the contribution. And so I think the that's, that's the short version of of that was that did I answer? Yeah,

Jeremy Weisz 16:06

actually, you know, go a little deeper on that. Because you do talk about less, less, talk more while walking

Mark Hiddleson 16:13

walkie talkie talkie? Yeah. One of my favorite sayings is it's not talkie talkie. It's it's walkie walkie. Is that what you mean? Or what was you mean,

Jeremy Weisz 16:26

exactly right. Because that kind of relates to what you just said, right? Yeah, don't just think about it or talk about it. You're saying do it.

Mark Hiddleson 16:33

Yeah, I mean, and so that's the fun thing. But so I'm talking about so I'm sitting here saying, you know, less less talkie talkie more walkie walkie, but I'm, I'm sitting here recording a podcast doing most of the talking. But I'm actually, you know, we're recording this I'm actually a lot more careful with what I say you know, amendment is say less, because I know it's been recorded. And I have a joke with myself as I interviewed for the live podcast program. But I was rejected because too much of the stuff I say needs to be edited. A lot of time. So I only qualified for the recording. But that's a joke. But it is I mean, I think one of the exercises that we did in my my graduate studies was they wanted us to create a dialogue of a holistic cocktail party. That was one of the exercises like what would the conversation be like? And so we were sharing ideas and everything. And I thought, man, would a holistic cocktail party be really awesome if it was just nothing but silence. Everybody loves because it was funny. It was super true was like whenever you that's that's the other tricky part about language is that it's it's metaphor, which is really powerful. But it with, you can also make mistakes with a degree created duality, where like I said, pointing at the moon is not the same thing at the moon. It says another another way to say, How does

Jeremy Weisz 18:08

Dale Carnegie feed into this the messenger?

Mark Hiddleson 18:13

So there's a couple. So we're kind of talking about, about what not to say. So I read that book, How to Win Friends and Influence People. I was probably 18 or 20 years old. And I had a mentor. I love that book. It's a great, it's a great book. And I don't know the title is kind of a Don Juan thing, right? How do you body win friends and influence people? And a few things they did just stuck with me and I've never forgotten about it. But it's don't criticize, condemn or complain. I think I wrote that down on a three by five card one time when I was like 25 or 26. Or God forbid, gossip. So the I have a good story about gossip. So the thing about gossip, it's not really it's not a moral issue. And and really, none of the everything that I'm talking about is a moral. You know, like, well, this is what you should do, this is the right thing to do or the wrong thing to do. But if you gossip, it tells whoever you're gossiping to. They subliminally get that, like you're talking about somebody else, you're talking smack about somebody else. So in their mind, they're thinking we'll find out here, you're going to be talking smack about me. So again, I'm not perfect at this and gossip. The thing is, I mean, the reason it's a sin is because it's awesome. You can get It's intoxicating, right? Well we could just sit here talking about this guy talk to us. The nice thing is you don't have to admit anything, anything true or you know, feedback or course direction for yourself. And I think it kind of also goes along with criticism or blame is is the same. The same thing. So the same boss that that gave me that book. We also read Stephen Covey and then part of I forget it's either Being proactive or being in within the mind, he shares the principle of non duplicity. And I had a boss and he was giving a speech at another it was a forklift company. And in his speech, he was saying, we, we read our company, our old companies read the book, How to Win Seven Habits of Highly Effective People, then everybody's training, we were proactive, which you know, to him, and we're going to get you before you get me, which is not really not what I mean, he goes, and we practice duplicity, you know, and he went through and doing the whole thing he goes, and we put first things first, and we think Win win, and we're, you know, trust based relationships are based on seeking to understand before you're understood, and synergize and sharpened Solly went through all that. So I talked him out to the speech and I said, you know, duplicity means you're two faced cuts, if you're telling if you're at a meeting, it was kind it was kind of hard for me because I was down I was like, 2627 years old, and this guy is like on his company, and he's kind of a super nice guy, but he was ruled, you know, and so he told me like, well, you know, Stephen Covey, Yale graduate psychologist, Best Selling Author it go yeah, go he does a complicity in the book. But what he's saying is, is duplicity is a bad thing. And so he actually, in my to my, my old boss credit, he went and he read he read that section, like, you know, you're right, that word duplicity means something completely different. On it did. So. Um, so duplicity is gossip, it's talking behind people's back. I mean, it's something that even in my family, you know, people talk about other people. And I'll always say something like, you know, somebody wants to talk, and I'm managing multiple people. So if somebody wants to blame something on someone else, or go, Well, you know, it's all because they'll say, hey, look, let's get them on a three way, let's have a conversation, like, Let's protect, you know, you always want to protect the reputation of the people who aren't there. And like I said, it's not, it's not the right thing to do. It's not because I'm saying it is, but it's just in a, in the long term relationships will seems like wow, he wouldn't let them talk smack because that he protecting them, he's probably going to protect me. And they're not it's subconscious. They're not even thinking that. But if you do that over and over and over, if you're gossiping all the time, man, I grew up in a town where it was a small town, and everybody knew everything, you know, as soon as you didn't, it's in a company or a culture to be like cancer. No. So

Jeremy Weisz 22:22

yeah, I feel like this chapter is really relates to a lot of things in culture, and the culture aspect of a company.

Mark Hiddleson 22:31

And how you speak because So the messenger, and then the next, you know, the next chapter is going to be action. And that's the first one where the archetype is kind of funny, because the archetype is the prostitute, which we're getting into. So just to clarify, so I base my archetype project on Carol when Mrs. Work and she found in her study that there were four archetypes that we all really have, it's the child, the prostitute, the saboteur, and the victim. And so everybody, you know, everybody's been victimized at some point, like everybody, and then prostitute isn't really what its action, it goes with the actions. So it's through the lens of a prostitute, the prostitute was really, you know, what you're willing to trade off prostitute is kind of a trade off, like, everything has a cost. And so, you know, if you decide to, you know, there's a lot of ways but even, you know, in business, whatever you decide to sell, you're charging, you're trading your time for money, you're trading your expertise for money with their some kind of transaction, but it really has more to do with. And even so in the actual in the porosity would be when you're choosing between two categories, like I made a commitment, I need to choose to keep that commitment, you know, which I think is great idea. And, but or you could choose not to keep that, in that. That's sort of through but I'm jumping ahead to the next that's okay. They'll

Jeremy Weisz 23:57

have to, you know, listen to there will be eventually another episodes, you can check that one out as far as what what Markwas saying about the prostitute, right? So he's just dropped us dropping a little friendly. You know, To be continued. We'll have to check out the next episode. But there's two last things I want to talk about for this one, which is the messenger archetype is gratitude. And then your word. So talk about gratitude. But there was one more

Mark Hiddleson 24:39

thing about the the Dale Carnegie and it's because this isn't a this isn't a it's be hardy and your approbation and lavish in your praise. And that was something that you know, people don't get enough. Kudos right. Everybody's willing to let you know when you made a mistake. Kerri did this. He didn't do this. Here's some feedback course correction. But that and then what that also reminded me of is there's a thing about speech and integral speech is choosing the words you use. And so one of my great experiences that has probably man, it's probably been 10, maybe more years, we went on a cruise. And my kids were young. And I think a lot of the people were foreign. You know, they spoke English, but a broken English, but everything they said was excellent, fantastic. If you told them it was like, excellent. Certainly ask them and they saw the words you choose. You know, excellent, fantastic, amazing dynamite. It makes a difference. And it changes like, while these guys don't speak very good English with everything they say they're using these words. So you have a choice of words. And one of my favorite is the distinction between a problem a challenge and opportunity. So instead of saying problem, so these are just substitutes, right? It's not even really a paradigm. It's like, it's so this word, use this word. In the words I like to use for approbation is like, you deserve it, you've earned it, great performance. And then, you know, on the same wavelength, I like to use words like generate, create, invent the possibility. I mean, these are things that you can say, you know, the word potential, you have great potential, right, or inventing the possibility is something I learned at a seminar that I was like, a five day thing, but inventing the possibility, I mean, you're using language, to really, you know, create more opportunities. And so the and so, the gratitude is the other one, that he wanted me to talk about speaking gratitude. So I created this as another one, probably five years ago, gratitude practice is kind of a something that's, I've seen a lot on the, there's lots of research on treating the gratitude practice. And so have a few of you know, when I meditate, there's some times when when I'm grateful, but I started this practice of just writing things down. And then I got a credit to whoever gave me this idea to just write down I have a margin in my in my planner, and I'll write down things I'm grateful for and it could be it could be random stuff. It's little things no like find a little things I'm grateful for. I'm grateful for having fresh water. I'm grateful for my pillows on my bed, my sheets, my my computer, my books, my I'll just agree it will make it easy. And sometimes my kids, my kids have found this before because I don't always but sometimes I'll write down. You know, I'm thankful for

Cody Drake, Serena. And then sometimes I write them in different order. My, my daughter found it and she should go through this and go, Oh, you've mentioned the first on this when I go well look at more pages because I always change the order because there is no favorite. But to me, and I think and I haven't. And I've heard Andrew Shubin did a podcast on on gratitude. After I created this practice, and I listened the whole thing and I didn't because I think there's a key to this, the person I learned from said, write all those things down keep it simple your car, a pencil, like I'm, I'm grateful that I have a pencil, I have a book that I have. But also be thankful for the challenges, right? I'm thankful that my neighbor is such a jerk that I have to go over there and have a conversation with them because it's gonna make me a better person. I'm thankful that I have this duty of getting other stuff and there's things in business I really don't do I like I don't like doing the reports for the accountant. But I'm grateful that I have I'm grateful there's something that report is looking at, you know, it's just kind of a way to shift the perspective and, and in the in the never criticize, complain, or condemn thing from, from Dale Carnegie reminds me of the there's my coaches coach who wrote this, this piece and I copied this out of it was for the owner of Whole Foods had a quote. And the quote was, every time I had a breakdown, even though his name was knowing, you know, Whole Foods, but every time I had a break through Whole Foods had a breakthrough. And every time I was ready to have my next breakthrough, whole foods would show me because of what I was complaining about in Whole Foods. And I think that is just it's it's a it's a beautiful way of taking your complaints. It really, it was the genesis of when I started thinking about starting my own company because I've never been a complainer I'm not, you know, I'm gonna, I'm not gonna be part of the problem. I'm gonna be part of the solution. And that's not just a cliche. I really, you know, I found myself complaining that Well, I can't do this. I can't do this. And then meetings and everything. It's like, wait a minute, don't complain. Use it to create a transformation.

Jeremy Weisz 29:47

Yeah. I love that. And when you say that Mark, it's like, it makes me think I take so many things for granted. Right? I mean, when you talk about the gratitude stuff Well, I'm grateful for There's water right in, I'm grateful for whatever, that there's a lot of people in the world who don't have that, right? Let's take us home, on your word, and how that relates to the messenger.

Mark Hiddleson 30:13

Okay, so of all of these things. You know, in the poem, it says, Once you discover who you are, you have to drive that fancy car, and, you know, discovered who you are is a life long process. And what I want to say about that, first is, when I started to say the thing about you know, thyself doesn't mean no, your track record, but what it does mean is, you can, you can, it can be as yourself, it's really easy, everybody does it, and then no one's better than I am. And really knowing yourself is the continuous never ending process of discovering the ways that you bullshit yourself and correcting it, you know, bringing it to light. I mean, enlightenment is bringing those things that were shadow aspects. That's why I love the archetypes because, you know, what am I doing is the messenger that that the shadow and how do I integrate that shadow in? It's fine. It's, I have to also have to make a public apology to Jeff Taylor, I messed up his name on another podcast that we did. I was like, it's Jeff Watson or Jeff Walker. And then the the team that was reading it, they said, Oh, the guy you were talking about his name was Jeff Taylor. Well look, like went to his LinkedIn because we did find his LinkedIn profile. He's no doubt a monster for years, and he works for another company. But I sent a message to for to add them to my LinkedIn, I told them, hey, I mentioned on my podcast, I messed up your name. And, you know, so the other thing is, you're gonna make mistakes, okay, about being your word. Like, I've kept my word that every single time I say someone, podcasts gonna be the right thing. So on that case, I kind of messed up my word, because I messed up his name. So I did something about it. So so the thing about you are your word is, I think is really, it's of all this of the messenger. This is really, this is this is the bottom line. I mean, you give your word self you give, and it's something you don't find in, in, a lot of people give their word, and then they do a cost benefit analysis, when it comes time to keep their word. And what really makes the word and again, this isn't right or wrong, I'm not saying that's wrong, that's wrong. But when you continue on, I just need a little things. And, and I tried to get my team to do this all the time, if you just make little commitments, and then keep that commitment, you can start building on bigger commandments, people started tribes, like he said, he was going to call it 15 minutes to call it 15. As he said, I was gonna give up, they given up he said, it was gonna send a resource to the thing, he gave a resource to the thing. So the key to it. And again, it's, it's, it's been cautious about making commitments, and then super dedicated to keeping them and then correcting course, when you can, because the thing is, is if if you're, if you're doing anything of significance, and there's stuff on your time, and you're gonna, there's gonna be times where you give your word, and, and you just can't make it work, you know. And so it isn't about being perfect with your work, but it is about honoring it. And if something does come up, you don't just say, oh, you know, I'm not going to do that, because something better came up, you actually have to say, Okay, I gave you my word, that's not going to happen, how did that affect, you know, sometimes what people like, hey, we can reschedule, or someone was like, Well, you know, now I have a deadline on not gonna, you know, be able to do and so it's figuring out a way to, to make your word work in a way where people know, hey, if I give something and then it's just builds trust. And it also leads into the next chapter, which is the action chapter is that, you know, your word really creates the container for the action you're going to take because you say you're going to do something, and then do it. And then the action is doing it. So to me, you know, that's, that's really important that there was one more thing that I left out about the message the messenger, and it's the same thing about self talk, how you talk to yourself. Yeah, because that's the other thing you're the messenger. You're constantly in a dialogue with yourself, right? It was you can call it the critic, your conscience. And one of the things one of the great things about meditation certain meditation like when you're when you just settle down you just kind of witness how you're talking to yourself. It's like I should be doing this I should do this while you meditate. You know how to meditate you should be shopping you should be goes into meditative, meditative done anything for you. What are they you know, that sets in after by two minutes and so you let that settle and you just kind of acknowledge it, but but then can you really slow down you really still See how how the language what that internal dialogue is. And I think it's important all the things we talked about don't criticize, condemn or complain. Be lavish in, you know, in your approbation, lavish in your praise, all those things are important, just as much of talking with other people is your own self talk. And the last thing is, is a story. One of my, one of my greatest mentors was just awesome electrician, and he was like a tough guy. He wasn't like, this isn't the guy, I thought it was going to be, you know, like Stuart Smalley on Saturday Night Live reading the dog.

Jeremy Weisz 35:38

Strong enough and God DARN IT people like me.

Mark Hiddleson 35:41

So this guy is not the kind of guy and he's electrician. He's like, you know, tough guy. And he told me, he said, Man, when I first started, and I mean this, he was doing conveyor system, he was doing nuclear power plants, water triggers with this desert guy that everybody, you know, look to one of my favorite things. He told the guy one time they were working, and he goes, Look, man, I don't have time to explain the theory, just do it the way I told you to, okay. But he said, For the first six months, every time he'd go to work before he went to work, he'd say, because he was he was threatened by this new trade of being an electrician, because it was a lot he was telling me. So I'm a good electrician, I'm an electrician, I'm an awesome electrician. And I was really I was blown away. Because I was like, Man, that is. That's like some super, you know, affirmations are really powerful way to speak to yourself. And, you know, I just thought that everybody could use a little bit of positive self affirmation. So that

Jeremy Weisz 36:43

what makes me think of this Mark about one last thought about your word, is the Four Agreements is one of my favorite books. And it's very simple. It's very simple. And be impeccable with your word, don't take anything personally don't make assumption, always do your best. And in you talked about it, which is it doesn't mean you always are 100% on right, you just, it's also about always do your best. Like, sometimes your best is different. If you got three hours of sleep that night, you haven't eaten anything, even drink anything, whatever your best may change. And so I love that book. And it kind of encapsulates what you're talking about, which is one piece of that, which is, Be impeccable with your word, just, if you can't do it, at least you can, you know, let the person know why. And just try and live up to as much as you can, even if you cannot, you know, actually live up to your promise, you follow up with it. So there's still that trust there. So I want to encourage people Mark to check out other episodes of your podcast. And I'm looking forward to also hearing and listening to you if you want to check out the next one, which you know, there may be other interviews in between it, but the integral action of the prostitute that will be an interesting one, so I'm looking forward to that one too. So, Mark, thanks again for having me. Appreciate it.

Mark Hiddleson 38:15

Yeah, thank you. It's been this has been a delight. I appreciate it. Have a good one, Jeremy.

Outro 38:21

Thanks for listening to The Tao of Pizza Podcast. We'll see you again next time and be sure to click Subscribe to get future episodes.


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