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Procrastination Is the Enemy of Action With Mark Hiddleson

Updated: Oct 4, 2022

Mark Hiddleson

Mark Hiddleson is the Owner of Specialized Storage Solutions, Inc., a nationwide logistics company with industry-leading warehouse storage solutions. It provides clients with innovative products, facility layouts, and designs to optimize their logistics operations.

Mark has several decades of service experience in the warehousing and logistics industry, with leadership roles in several professional industry organizations. Using a holistic approach, he also has experience in equipment material handling, operations management, supply chain optimization, professional development, and public speaking. He holds a bachelor’s in economics and a master's degree in holistic health education.

Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn:

  • Mark Hiddleson explains what the integral action through the lens of the prostitute means

  • How to use the prostitute archetype in business

  • The principle of first things first

  • Why is procrastination the enemy of action?

  • Mark explains what training the lion means

  • The role Zig Ziglar has played in his life

  • The value of giving back without expectations

  • How to be the agent of chill and not change

  • How to nuke procrastination

In this episode…

What are you willing to invest to get what you want? Should you spend your time, money, or energy? Are you putting things off because you’re afraid you’ll miss out if you invest too much of your time but still want to transform your life?

If you’re afraid you will miss out on something, you tend to procrastinate rather than take immediate action. If you don't take action, you won't be able to change your situation. But when you take action and put it into practice, things become more effortless. Luckily, pain is a huge motivator for action because once you solve a problem, the pain goes away. Procrastination is the enemy of action and delays progress and success. You can overcome fear and procrastination by taking action. Once you put it into practice, you will find that investing your time and energy pays off in ways you may not expect.

In this episode of The Tao of Pizza Podcast, host Mark Hiddleson is joined by Dr. Jeremy Weisz, Co-founder of Rise25, to discuss how procrastination is the enemy of action. Mark explains how to use the prostitute archetype in business, how to be the agent of chill and not change, and his tips for overcoming procrastination.

Resources mentioned in this episode:

Sponsor for this episode...

This episode is brought to you by Specialized Storage Solutions Inc.


I have been in the logistics and storage industry for several decades. I know I don’t look that old, but it's true..

We provide industry-leading warehouse storage solutions nationwide.

So basically if you have a warehouse that needs Rack, Shelving, Carts, Conveyors or Mezzanines we help engineering, installations, inspections, and repairs to help clients optimize their logistics operations.

Sometimes people don’t even realize that we can actually help with permit acquisition services.

We take a holistic look at your entire business supply chain ecosystem to develop the resources for continually improving your operation.

To learn more, visit or give us a call at (707) 732-3892. One of the best ways to learn more about our products and services is to follow us on instagram. And there’s a link on our website to do that.

I will even give you my personal email address for podcast listeners so email me at if you’re ready to take your warehouse storage and retrieval systems to the next level.

Episode Transcript:

Intro 0:01

Welcome to The Tao of Pizza where we feature top logistics leaders, entrepreneurs, and supply chain innovators and share their inspiring stories with a holistic twist.

Mark Hiddleson 0:16

Mark Hiddleson here, host of The Tao of Pizza Podcast where I talk with top industry innovators in the warehousing, logistics, and supply chain business with a holistic twist. Before I introduce today's guest, check out an episode I did with Michael Mikitka. He's the Executive Vice President of education at the Warehousing Education and Research Council. I had a great conversation with Michael a few weeks ago, you'd probably enjoy checking that out. Well, today I've got Dr. Jeremy Weisz here of Rise25, who's done thousands of interviews with successful entrepreneurs and CEOs. And today we flip the script and he's going to be interviewing me.

Jeremy Weisz 0:56

I'm excited about this because you are a man and master of action. And that's what this episode is about is about action. And we're gonna get into it before we do. This episode is brought to you by Specialized Storage Solutions. And, Mark, I know you've been in the logistics and storage industry for decades. Okay. And, you know, you provide industry leading warehouse storage solutions nationwide. So if someone has a warehouse, and that needs racks, shelving, carts, conveyors, mezzanines, anything help with design, engineering, installations, inspections, everything, you know, that comes into optimizing your logistics operations, call them, email them. And sometimes people don't even realize, mark that you actually help people with permit acquisition services, everything. So you take a holistic approach at the entire business supply chain ecosystem. So if you want to learn more, go to Or give them a call 707-732-3892. Even decided he would give his personal email address for podcast listeners, if you want to email him. It's Check it out and ask him any questions you have so on this is going to be the integral action through the lens of the prostitute. And before you are like, What are you talking about here, Mark, we'll go into the archetypes. What that means. And we'll go from there.

Mark Hiddleson 2:24

Yeah, absolutely. Thank you, Jeremy, thank you for thank you for joining us.

Dr. Jeremy Weisz 2:32

So wow, that integral action through the lens of the proxy, what does that mean?

Mark Hiddleson 2:36

Yeah, I knew this is the one that I saw on the list, like this is the one that we could have some fun with. But unfortunately, I'm gonna divert pretty quickly away from the from the, you know, obviously, people think we're probably you they think of selling your body for money or sex, you know, the sexual part. For me, it's, it's the fun part. And that goes back to the integral worldview of the cloud. So all of these episodes that we've done, and this is the fourth one, I've told the story through the lens of an archetype, because it's, it's a process of self discovery. And the chapters are organized on purpose, like the first one was a worldview because the worldview is kind of what includes all the other things because your worldview is basically what's possible, told that story through the lens of the clown, and it's just the way you know, there's, there's 12 archetypes that I've identified with myself and prostitutes, one of the survival archetypes with kind of all shared in common, so there's four of them. There's the victim, the saboteur, the prostitute, and then it's funny children, the child, so we all everybody has those, I mean, the other ones like the clown, not everybody's a clown, not everybody sees the Don Juan archetype. But we talked about mission and vision through the lens of Don Juan, which Don Juan is like the seducer. And what makes it integral is that all of these archetypes and all of these things that we're talking about whether it's action, or a vision, or a worldview, there's a shadow side. And so so the prostitute is, you know, it's just not the shadow side. And it's not just selling, it's not just what you're willing to do for money, but it's about a lot of the trade offs that that we make in the prostitute is kind of, you know, how much are you willing to sell yourself, your your, your morals, your integrity, your creativity, intellect, your word. And that's, that's how the last chapter we talked about the integral, integral speech through the archetype of the messenger. And the last part of that is the most important thing about speech. Is that what they're one of the most important things is you are your word. And so action is kind of the second half of that. So You know, the prostitute archetype comes into play when it comes time when you've given your word. And then when it's time to fulfill on your word, sometimes the mood is different when it comes time to fulfill that commitment. And so if you choose not to fulfill commitments, the the prostitute, prostitute archetype is coming into

Dr. Jeremy Weisz 5:19

play that when you think about this integral actions are the lens, the prostate, how does that? How do you translate that into business? How do you use this for your your business life.

Mark Hiddleson 5:34

So, you know, a lot of a lot of people are, are taken with the idea of of getting what they want, okay, and a lot of people aren't willing to swallow the pill, the work that's involved in getting there. And, you know, in business, I've I've had some pretty ambitious goals. And, and one of the things is that a lot of the effort that goes into it is hidden behind the scenes. And it's, you know, I spend the majority of my time doing things that people don't see, and it's not in the spotlight, and it's not the fun stuff. But you know, it's the work required to do some of this. And I mean, one of the one of the first things I can think of in building a business, and I just had a conversation with somebody who founded a company, a, and they do apps and websites, it's Valerie Dawson, and she was talking about her process over a four year period of time, she's done something like I forget, it was 2000, cold calls or 20,000, whatever was the number, I was just like, wow, cold calls, you know, and most people, career ends, I don't even call it cold calls in my business. I call it warm content, introduction model, but the thing is, you know, yeah, you got to ask yourself, you know, if you're, if you're in love with an idea that or something you want, it's kind of what are you willing to put up with? Or set another way? You know, what are you willing to pay for? Whether it's with your time, your energy, you know, what are you what are you willing to pay for everything that comes with it. And that means, you know, whether writing a book or building a business, or, you know, if your goal is to become rich and famous, something is gonna get in your way, or get on your nerves on that path. And so it doesn't always sound inspiring, it's like, the old podcast isn't about the bad news either. Because, you know, I know, we'll get into the shadow kind of the shadow aspects of it. And, and you brought up I'm a man of action. So it's, it's the thing with integral action, one of one of the reasons that I called the integral is because it's a whole. And so the action has a shadow side, there's, and I'll share some of my personal experiences. Yeah, I'm a man of action. And that's great in business, it means, you know, we're willing to overcome fears and do certain things. But I can also, I can take it too far. How so? So, the easiest examples, the easiest, so one of the so one of the things for building and one of the reasons I'm doing archetypes and self awareness, and everything, the most important things for me, and whether it's business or personal, and it's relationships. And in business, it's really good to be a man of action. And another one of my archetypes is the hero archetype. So, like, if I had a choice, if I if I didn't put all these archetypes in a hat, and then draw them out one by one and go, I'm gonna do these chapters, I would have told every single one through the either the hero or the athlete archetype. Like those are two. And that can get in the way, the action so at home, a lot of times I find myself saying things, that I'll be better off if I just didn't say anything. Oh, it's are solving problems, you know, you find that not everybody, you know, I have this proactive approach in business. And when you let that overflow into other areas, we can go take a look at this a little too much action that I wasn't asking for. Rarely does it become a problem in business because just it's so busy that you know, people are happy if you're taking action on their side, but I can get I personally can get into this mode where it's Problem Solver mode, or it's looking in it's like, oh, this is what we need to do. Make a list of these things and take action on them. What's happening is procrastination but all you got to do for those overcome fear and it's just like, Whoa, dude, that was just sharing what went on with my day. Right?

Dr. Jeremy Weisz 9:45

You talk to Mark about First things first about practice.

Mark Hiddleson 9:53

So, so practice so that's the thing if you have a so first Let me say a little bit more about the about the shadow. So, Shadow is also how much are you willing to sell of, of yourself. And it really has to do with how you spend, spend your time. And so, you know, for me in this is I'll talk more about the shadow at the end because I really want to talk about non action and how that really, you know, things when you do put in the practice, things become more effortless. But the silver lining of the prostitute archetype is really, that when you when you confront, when you confront this archetype, it transforms the prostitute into sort of like your guardian angel. Because you're more you're more aware of when you are selling your trading things like if you're, this isn't something that I liked it when I, when I meet somebody, like I have a really good client that, you know, he started his company 50 years ago. And it's Tom Davies from from visa to winery. And he's just always willing to invest his time spend it with me. And when I go there to the winery, a lot of times I like to say hi. And it's not just and then whenever I go there, it's like, oh, we're meeting the President of the winery, or I know, the president of the winery. And if I was doing that, just to say, Hey, I know the President of the winery, it's kind of the wrong use of that relationship. So there's a sincerity piece that, you know, I really just want to say hi to Tom and almost kind of wish he wasn't the owner just because you know, a love this guy just want to go say hi, when he's there. And then every time I do, he ends up doing something really nice for us, you know what I've not even really other than not even asking for that either. But that's kind of how the prostitute if, if you're aware of that, it doesn't become a problem. But if you're just, you know, you could end up using people really. And that's kind of where the prostitute archetype becomes your guardian angel, because you're not doing those things because you realize it's a possibility. So and, and the thing is about one of the, this is the one thing that I, whenever I think of the prostitute archetype, the first thing, and I've had bosses, I can't think of who it was. But one of the rules for the actual now. So I'm talking about prostitution, metaphorically, mostly. But for now, in prostitution, part of the paradigms and principles for peak performance, and prostitution is get the money first, like, first things first. And there's a reason for that. Because after the fact, it's always the color harder to collect once the services have been rendered. Right. So are laughing but I just I wanted to use because that's a good principle, because that brings in the, the principle of First things first, it's up studied Stephen Covey. That's the third habit, which is really, you know, we all have things in our life that are, are urgent, they're not always important. So there's this decision making matrix of is an urgent and important isn't important and urgent. And a lot of the stuff that's important, like practice, it's not urgent, you know? And there's a lot of waste funny I do. And then in business, it's like, how does this relate to business? A lot of times when you're asking for the money, or at least me when I'm asking for money, and a lot of times, we're asking for a lot of money, I'm making sure that we've done every other thing that we need to for this client, that they that they're going to be more than happy to pay us. But there's jobs that we can't start without a deposit. And I find that every time I've violated that principle, and we started a jobs like, Oh, hey, I know you're a nice guy. I know you want to keep this project Don't settle. So we just went ahead and ordered all this stuff. We didn't get the deposit, we didn't get all everything done ahead of time. It usually ends up costing in the long run. So the idea of practicing was that it bites you later on, it bites you later on because it's just it's harder to collect once the services have been rendered. So that's actually that's a great principle. And it but it also has to do with with practice, so

I think what keeps people a lot of people from from acting and so another thing the prostitute archetype is it shows up when you're if somebody is in an unhealthy relationship, and this has been in business too. I've had unhealthy relationships where I'm you used to working with a certain supplier or certain contractor and you just get used to it. They're not fulfilling the same level of commitment, but you just kind of deal with it will, when confronting this archetype becomes your guardian angel, you start to end suddenly say, Well, I'm going to wait till we finish this job, or I'm gonna wait till next month, or I'm gonna wait to like find somebody else. It's like, the longer you stay in an unhealthy relationship, you're, it's costing you, it's costing somewhere else.

Dr. Jeremy Weisz 15:33

Yeah, I like you know what you say First things first. Because, you know, pain is a huge motivator. And once you resolve that pain, the people will have less motivation to pay you. I mean, you hope that happens. But like, if I pull up into the mechanic, my car is not working. And there's like, I know, like, I just had something going on with my car, and they call me before doing the work. They're like, hey, we have authorization, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And, you know, for as far as the payment goes, you know, once it's fixed, I mean, they're also not going to give me my car until I pay it. But, you know, the, you lose that motivation. It's like we solve your problem. Okay. Yeah. Mark, well, we'll get to paying you that no worries. Whereas if they're trying to get their, their manufacturing facility up and running, then the motivation is, is there, right, you don't have to cheat one chase people after the fact.

Mark Hiddleson 16:33

Right, yeah, it's, you know, for us, it's usually it's, it's a deposit and you know, you're ordering custom material, that, you know, some of them has a lot of lead times, and, you know, we have to pay deposits for factory if we want to order material or have, you know, things done, and you want to be on the hook for it. You don't want to be on the hook.

Dr. Jeremy Weisz 16:57

So procrastination,

Mark Hiddleson 17:00

a little bit. So for us, procrastination is the enemy of action, right. And it's where, where you're gonna write that book someday, but you're waiting for the right time, you're gonna start that new company, you're gonna ask your boss for a raise, or you're gonna start making 20 cold calls a day, every day. But it's always there even losing weight, or any program that can always it I mean, that happens every meet. It's funny, the ones I love to do once a year, I'll take a pretty intense 90 day period, for what I call a 90 day transformation, there'll be a little bit physical. I talked a little bit about it with Nancy Fateen when I interviewed her, which is it's another great podcast, to check out. She mentioned transformational leadership, podcast. But those 90 days, sometimes I'll go well, I don't want it to fall during Christmas, or I don't want to, I don't want to start all started in two weeks. And I've had times where I've done that, where it's it's always going to be a 90 day thing. And I didn't start it for 60 days. So it gets it's the enemy of action. And one of my favorite the first time I ever heard of the, what I one of the things I love to say is the secret tip for overcoming procrastination is based on fear, right, I'm afraid I'm gonna miss out on something. If I start this 90 Day transformation period, I'm not drinking, I'm not doing anything and I'm working out twice a day, I'm gonna miss out on something I'm gonna miss out on the Christmas bar, I'm gonna miss out on Valentine's Day, I'm gonna miss out. And then when you look at 90 days, you're gonna hit something. So, so that's a fear of missing out, you know, there's fear of rejection. One of them was somebody, a friend of mine, his daughter started a, a sales job and a lot of it involves cold calling. And that's, I brought up the practice, I go, man, I go when when I was first starting out, I would work practice and rehearse ahead of time. And I would visualize seeing people reacting positively and I would, I would do it and I would say this is just practice. This is just practice. I'm just working on my I'm working on myself. I'm working on my skills, and you know if it is to be is meant to be. But uh, you know, I'm thinking a lot of the Law of Attraction is something I read about when I was probably 1819 years old, and the book Think and Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill. And he talks about, you know, how your mindset and you'll attract things and the movie, The Secret the movie, The Secret is really kind of it's about the same thing. And I don't even know do they bring up with Have you seen The Secret, Jeremy?

Dr. Jeremy Weisz 19:37

it's been a while. I don't remember if they bring in Think and Grow Rich into that.

Mark Hiddleson 19:43

I don't. I don't think they don't think anybody does anymore. It's like that's kind of a trippy, but the Think and Grow Rich. I read it a few years ago. I guess I read it when I was probably 18 or 19. And there's some deep stuff in there. Actually. He talks about one of his 13 tenants is the power of sex transmutation. So that goes right in to the prostitute thing. But it's, you know, when you're practicing. So the other thing I told, so Auggie said, Do you have any advice and it's funny, I'm always trying to be careful. That's one of the thing action to get me trouble. A lot of times people don't want your advice. So that's a problem for me. Like, a lot of times people will come to me revise it, just to have it. Somebody asked me for advice, like, oh, cool, you know, I've done a lot of cold calls. And what The Secret is to put the action in the law of attraction, when when you just kind of gotta get your butt out there. I think a lot of what I've seen are the people things will criticize about the secret of law of attraction is that you're manifesting and I do believe in manifesting, but it has to start with the action, you have to actually be doing stuff, right? To take action.

Dr. Jeremy Weisz 21:01

You also were talking about training the lion.

Mark Hiddleson 21:09

So, training align the team and more Moszer this is there's a lot of different ways to say this. It was I was playing golf with a friend of mine, he's retired electrician, he has been for a while and he was he loves to gamble. Gamblers another that's another archetype. Only one of these is going to be the gambler, because that's another one. And I chose the gambler archetype, not because I love to gamble. But I like I like playing the odds and everything I do, I kind of like to know, you know, when I'm putting action, but he said, I've got a, we were getting ready to leave and everyone kind of had a you have a limited gamble, right? If you don't like me, I don't gamble like I can. Okay, I've got 200 bucks. And once that's gone, I'm not going to do it. So he Gamble's a lot, and he's retired. So he's on a fixed income. So he goes, Yeah, it goes. But I've got a angel on one side of the St. Okay, you said 202 100 is the number. But there's a devil on this side. And he's going to look at this machine's hot and you're just getting into it. So that kind of reminds me of, you know, everybody we have in their psyche, in the lion, in the monster metaphor, I think is from when I was getting mixed up between Plato and Socrates and Aristotle, I'm pretty sure it's a Plato thing. But there's these three parts of your cycle and the man who's kind of deciding which one to listen to you, is kind of weak, because of the monsters like it's the power, it's the power of all the machines going off in this, like, I want it now, I want to, I want to have this experience. And so one of the one of the good examples of the lion in and I do this to look so like a mastermind group, or when I do these 90 Day transformations, a lot of times I'll have somebody else that I commit to you, I'll commit to you, I'll say Jeremy No, for the next 90 days, or my friend, Chris, or even get people who are going to do it. And programs, Team programs like that they're more successful, because that's the lion in you, and then the lion can take over, you know, pride and ego can take over, but that lion is kind of like I gave my commitment to Jeremy, I'm not gonna let that down. That's, that's the pride part. So so that can get carried away. And so in the monsters kind of like the shadow aspects of the archetypes. So to me the practice and I do this, you know, through different ways, you know, meditation, martial arts is another great way where you're training, you can't the man's not going to defeat the monster, like you're just weak that you want to eat the chocolate cake or the for me. A lot of times, it's a drinking, I'm a social drinker, I don't want to go to the parties and everything. And I'm going to be the guy, I actually downplay it to, if I'm on one of these things, I don't say anything about it. I don't say I'm doing the 90 day I just quietly ordered a Diet Coke and stick a lime in it looks like a cocktail and just still gonna be the life of the party. But that's kind of how it's a way of training your psyche that, you know, it's just one more than Freud was kind of the same like it super ego and ego. And that the super ego is kind of like the man the man is rational. The man knows that. You know, he needs to be in good shape. He needs to eat the right foods you need to avoid I mean, I still this is another one I want to go through all the archetypes but hedonist is another one of my archetypes, which is a pleasure, right, the more and the more the better. There's a limitation, the limitation of that. And so for me, a lot of the things I do is I don't always look at it through the lens of, of the man in the lion and the monster but I like that because, you know, the monster is a shadow archetype it can take off for me with doesn't matter whether it's the hero or the athlete. So for me like for athletics, I'd love to do what do you call it? amateur athletics. So I was in a basketball league for five years. And I'd always say I loved it for the workout. And like, I'm always I'm just gonna go out there. For fun. I hadn't want to get hurt. I'm 50 years old. You know, all these guys aren't calls everything else. I just want to have some fun exercise. It's not life or death. In the minute the whistle blows innocent Jump ball, everything's life or death on the plane all in and somebody's gonna get her going to argue with the reps over every call. You know, it's Have you ever had that experience? Jeremy,

Dr. Jeremy Weisz 25:59

I'm laughing because yeah, I mean, I love basketball as well. And, and I typically play weekly. And, you know, the, I think the older I've gotten, I have that mentality of listen, I just want to have a good workout and not get hurt. Like that's, that's a win, right? Earlier on, wasn't that,

Mark Hiddleson 26:18

but like you said,

Dr. Jeremy Weisz 26:22

you I'm taller. I'm six, three, but I'm also thinner. And they've usually put me up against someone who's six, five and 250 pounds, you always make 70 pounds, and I am competitive. So I'm like, This guy's not pushing me around. And that's not conducive to when I first went in, like, I don't want to get hurt. But it's that's just when you go out there and you're competitive. It takes over sometimes.

Mark Hiddleson 26:44

So I totally get it. Yeah, yeah, in the monsters. So the thing is, you don't in the psyche, Plato's point was kind of like, you don't want to kill the monster, because the monsters kind of were like, That's where all the fun here, that's where the, that's the joy, right in the in for, for the passion, the passion of life that I love. And as I have it, for basketball, I get into it the same way with business. And like I said, the action, you know, it's a sort of abstract theory. But for me, it's been really useful to kind of think of the things I train is this to kind of coordinate those three parts of myself, you know, the, because there's also there's a fallacy if you think because you because you know, something, that you're gonna do it. Like I know, in, in personal relationships at home, like, I know that I need to keep my mouth shut, probably 90% of the time. But in the execution, I always find myself saying, Oh, you shouldn't you should do that. Or, Oh, look, all you got to do is this, or, Hey, that was breezy. It's like, I find myself getting into trouble. And so you know, I mean, the training. Strength training has been one of my I found this quote, from from Arnold Schwarzenegger, he's 74 Now I guess we might be 75 by the time this is out. But he was talking with Logan Paul, he's like, it's never going to change trainings part of my life. It's that simple. You know, nothing's ever going to change the light diet will be working out, I'll be having a great time in the gym, I'll be getting the pump. And I want to feel good. And it's tough enough when you get old. So you got to hold on to as much as you can. And for me, like strength training is it is the pump. It is the but there's a practice of getting a lot of this stuff. You know, when you're in business or you're taking on anything, you there's a lot of stress your body creates a lot of stress hormone corazones and hormones and cortisol from stress, you know, is like that fear you get for fear zebra being chased by a lion, your body's creating this chemical. And lifting weights is one of the best ways to to use that up. And then it's like, relaxed, and you're practicing. And I got to think of a weightlifting thing for keeping my mouth shut. I can do that. Maybe it's a traffic. It could be Yeah. I mean in this so this is a practice to I mean, actually, that's a great. It's a great point. All this kind of started as funny five years ago when I watched my first podcast that was with a lot of resistance. And now five years later, I'm hosting one. It's a it's an interesting transformation. But I think

Dr. Jeremy Weisz 30:04

I was gonna say, I know one of the people that you that inspires you that you think about and talk about is Zig Ziglar, as well. So I wanted to hear some of the principles that you take from him, but you can finish whatever thought you were saying before, if you want to.

Mark Hiddleson 30:20

Well, the Zig Ziglar he was. I mean, he's an action guy, right? I mean, he would talk, I saw him live one time. And he had this chrome water pump thing. And he would be given the end of the spiel, I'm getting chills right now. Because thinking of just the way and His thing was, you know, you're gonna overcome fear with action. Right? And things he used to say, like a dog in the middle of a hunt, doesn't have time to scratch his fleece. If and then Zig Zig will. He also had a life we'll you know, it was it was important, like your family is important. Your faith is important. And in Yeah, money is important. But it's just part of a bigger pie. Man, I love Zig Ziglar. There's a life wheel that I refer to, you know, back, but there's the financial part. There's the emotional part, there's the contribution back to your community. What are what are some What did he What do you remember Zig Ziglar. For what's the excuse to listen

Dr. Jeremy Weisz 31:19

to Zig Ziglar was the his books, audio cassette tapes in my car driving around. And from Zig Ziglar I remember, you can get everything in life, get everything you want, as long as you know what quote I'm talking about, as long as you help people get what they want.

Mark Hiddleson 31:40

Yeah, and that's so there's a paradox. That's an important thing about action, too, is that and so action, all the chapters we've done, the first three are really internal, like your worldviews, your own your own worldview, to be aware of your mission and vision, it's kind of internal, it's what your, what your mission is, in your life, what you're going to use your life for, you know, what's your purpose? How are you going to create meaning, and then speech, it starts to be external, because once you talk about speeds, now you've kind of said something. So you've put it out there, to the universe, but action is really where you're talking about action connection to everybody else, and the Zig Ziglar thing about, you know, the way the way I paraphrase is, you're going to be successful by helping other people become successful. And it's kind of it's almost like a cliche. And it's so true. And it's it's really, that's a principle. I mean, that's one of the principles almost like it's the golden rule. Do unto others as you'd have them do unto you. But it's, it's so powerful, but it's a paradox because the once you know that, if you're so then you're just helping people, but you know, is going to eventually help you. It's funny, everything I've ever done, as like a social like, you know, really wanted to coach that junior high basketball team. Because my daughter asked me to write and I'm like, Oh, this is this is volunteering, this is giving back to the community. I've gotten so much more back from stuff like that. It's embarrassing. So another one is we sponsor Cycle for Sight, which is a local, that's put on by the Rotary. Every year they raised like 100 and something 1004. It's not just the blind, it's also they're connected with Wounded Warrior. And so it's this fundraiser bicycle fundraiser. Gary Rose is the president of the real estate, or president of Rotary, he's our real estate agent has been for 20 something years. I'm always excited to donate to that, but I get so much more back from it. It's just the connection, the networking, the you know, we're not I'm not doing it for the recognition I'm I'm I'm doing it for like this or that. It's not a tit for tat. Like that's kind of one of the things

Dr. Jeremy Weisz 34:02

you and and I like how you say it, it is a paradox. And because I've been thinking about this a lot, too. And I think the distinction is for me, is that when you do that you don't you don't have an expectation of getting something back necessarily you do it because you want to do it because that it feels good to do it. You're trying to help and you don't do it the expectation of which is okay, I mean, if even if you did, that's okay, but you don't do it the next patient, hey, I'm doing this because I want the recognition or whatever it is you just do it with. That's something you want to do and you don't necessarily expect, but you will get a lot of value out of it. So I don't know for me, it's that distinction of the expectation of getting something back from some from a charity or whatever it is, your expectation is just to give or your goal was just to give not expectation is to get something in return. I don't know how you how you think about that.

Mark Hiddleson 35:06

Yeah, I think I mean, after so many years, to me, it does come back to faith. I mean, that's one of the things and tying it back to the prostitute archetype is that you're less willing to sell your body or your soul or sell out if you have faith, that you're enough. And then I think once I've seen that played out, because I've just been, you know, been overwhelmed with gratitude for the things I've done. And I always, you know, for the first couple of years, we did cycle recitals like, wow, you know, we're supporting this great cause for the last five or six years we're done. It's like, wow, we're so lucky to be involved in this, like, we're lucky to be involved. And it's kind of faith in just, and the practice, you know, and some of it, it's become a lot of it's become second nature. You know, people say, Oh, hey, you, you helped out to this thing to try to just not this was one of the things about the prosecutor was that you can say no. And so that's kind of the shadow. Bringing in the shadow is, you know, one of the things that helps you keep your word in be impeccable. The impeccable with your word. Last time, we talked about the integral speech of the messenger, and you brought up the Four Agreements. Because one of them is Be impeccable with your word. So part of being impeccable with your word is fulfilling with action on your commitments. Well, part of being better at that is making less commitments to start with. And I love the Four Agreements, because I can always think of three off the top of my head. And so that they

Dr. Jeremy Weisz 36:43

can't remember the last time I thought of it was.

Mark Hiddleson 36:45

So that was, be impeccable with your word. Don't take things personally, do your best, and the one I couldn't think of and what's funny, when I do this, I always like I'll try to think of trying to think of and then I'll finally give up, I'll go a good copy of the book. Well, the fourth one, and so I like the one I can't think of, I'll always say and this is just kind of a private. Here's another example of a practice that I do. So the practice is because the one I can think of is probably the one that's biting into my ass that day. And then the fourth one is don't make assumptions. So that day, we were talking and you kind of rattled all four off, I don't know if you'd had a cheat sheet. That I'd say even Jeremy's really smart. He's got a cheat sheet. But even if you have a cheat sheet, you're still really smart. Because it's smart to have a cheat sheet. But I went and I don't make any assumptions. And so then I kind of did an audit, like, Okay, where am I making assumptions, and I have some relationships. Where I'm making assumptions, it's biting me in the ass and your assumptions. Those those agreements are awesome. They they sort of parallel, like your assumptions are kind of it's almost like your worldview is because you're assuming a bunch of things and most Ziva, assuming stuff you don't even realize you're assuming. Right? It's, it's it's another awareness, and then not taking yourself too seriously. He's kind of like the clown. Don't take things personally. In. I saw, I love that when you brought it up. But those are some great examples.

Dr. Jeremy Weisz 38:14

Yeah, I love those two. And sometimes you're exactly right. I'll remember three and there's always one I'm leaving out and I have to look it up maybe that that day, I happen to remember all of them, but usually I don't

Mark Hiddleson 38:28

you just rattle them off the top. That was awesome. Because when you did you're like yeah, what are they they're be impeccable with

Dr. Jeremy Weisz 38:35

don't make me a son don't make assumptions. I do tend to. That's the one I usually am not remembering as well. So but I like that. What you said is Maeve is probably the one biting me if I'm not remembering it. Mark, you also talk about you know, I've heard you talk about be the agent of chill,

Mark Hiddleson 38:57

not change. So that is so that's kind of the so the shadow type, the shadow of the action archetype is just wanting to change everything, right? Like you see an opportunity and you go out you see somebody struggling, you just want to go in and fix the problem. And you know, being an agent of change, there was a huge part of my life and I want to say like we need to change the way we're looking at the environment we need to change the way the economy started, we need to change the way the education system has really changed. And as I've gotten older, it's what I could see is that a lot of of what the world would be a lot better if a lot of people in you know especially people like me want to change anything. We're just blissing out. Like, because you know things things are a lot of things are going really there's a story that I love. It's It's a Taoist story that in and I put it in the book, and I've written and published it on The Tao of Pizza website. But it's about a butcher that never has this The Prince and the sharpest knife in this Butcher. And he never like most butchers would have to sharpen their knife. And it's a it's a metaphor, right? It's not the main, I'm sure there was actual butcher who was really good, but he never has to sharpen his knife, because when he comes on a difficult cut, he slows down. And he knows that there's space in in the art because he's a skilled Butcher. And he waits. And he practices the skill of first seeing the parts, or seeing the whole, and then seen with energy. And so when I heard that, actually, the first time I heard I didn't, I thought, why is she even telling the story, I was thinking about the actual butcher with actual. And we, but we did a practice called Conscious embodiment. And it was really about, you know, one of the things you can do when you train and it's a huge part of martial arts, but it's, it's lengthening the gap between your stimulus and the response. And I mean, you know, sometimes I do, I have a lot of knee jerk reactions, if something happens, it's just a knee jerk reaction or react this way. So try to look at those and minimalize it, you know, it's, it's increasing that just like the butcher is waiting, and he just weighs 123 and finds the space and then flop, the meat falls to the ground effortlessly. And I think it's a, I tried to practice that, and I tried to do things. Meditation is kind of a centering practice. And it's not a meditation is one of those words, it's just been, you know, when I say meditation, I really mean about 16 different things. Meditation, that is the word Mati, which is kind of go to the center, the middle meditation. So it was like a centering practice. And contemplation is like a temple, which is like an outward, going to the whole world practice. But the whole idea of being an agent of chill is, is kind of a it's not so much go with the flow. But it's the there's a principle of non action, it's called Wu Wei. And it's really not forcing things or going with the flows of nature, it's almost like swimming with the stream, instead of swimming upstream. And, you know, part of the practice is to kind of figure out which way the stream is going. And it's, it's, I'm humbled every time I think about what are the things that I'm hacking and chopping my way through life, instead of being like the butcher, the prince with the sharp knife, and waiting for the gas, because the gas usually appears, you know, if you wait for it, and that's, that's kind of the things that I train myself. And a lot of times, there's, there's a, in a relationship, there's those uncomfortable silences. That's the gap. And then those are the gaps between stimulus and response. And I think you know, that practice of practice with people that you see it in their martial art, it's so beautiful, they're not even not even doing it. They just are that. And that means if you can master anything, you could practice it or anything, or you're investing time. There was this great. There was this great quote that I heard,

oh, you spend, like 3040, or, you know, 30 or 40 minutes a day to get ready was brush your teeth, your hair, comb your hair, along everything like that. And how much time a day do you spend cultivating the gap between stimulus and response or cultivating your energy? By how many? And because I've always liked to spend about 20 minutes, I mean, it's less it's less than what I spend watching TV or less than what it takes to get ready. And that's kind of a great way of the prostitute is is, you know, what are you practicing to harness that guardian angel that's gonna help you see. See with energy, be in flow states, and eventually, I mean, there's so many things that are difficult in the beginning that wants you to learn it. It's make it look easy. I mean, driving a stick shift in a car, snow skiing, surfing, anything that it takes her require to develop a skill eventually. It looks easy. And that's what I think the chill versus change is. It's not just like chill, like, oh, whoa, did Peace out, we're just gonna let things go to hell. But it's, it's, it's more like the prince, you know, with the sharpest knife in letting the cuts kind of flop to the ground because you can see the gaps and the opportunities.

Dr. Jeremy Weisz 45:29

Mark, the last thing I want to ask you about in the in the integral action is, again, you talked about procrastination before, but I'm kind of stronger about nuking the prac. You know, the procrastination.

Mark Hiddleson 45:48

And your thoughts on,

Dr. Jeremy Weisz 45:50

you know, just kind of take us home with with that

Mark Hiddleson 45:55

new thought procrastination nation in your head? Is that what you're talking about? I mean, honestly, exactly. So it's funny that so the first time that I heard, I was probably 1211, or 12, than the, I remember that. And so the new I love to use the nuke metaphor. Because I think we can make certain problems, it means it's just gonna completely go away. But I remember finding out that like, the Russians had enough bombs to blow up the earth 50 times. And I was really scared about that. And I thought I was going to be concerned about until I found out that the US had enough to blow up the world 100 times. It's like, oh, so we're safe. The good news is we have a combined effort to blow up the world. 100 And in that 50 times, so that was a lot of relief. Isn't that make you feel relieved? Jeremy? So it's a good I mean, I think the good a good metaphor for, you know, doing new killer amount of action. That's whatever your goals are. And you know, we know that everybody, you know, including me that we're we're capable, like, human potential is such a huge subject, right, like everybody remember. So there's another thing like Einstein, most people only use 10% of their brain. Have you heard that? 10 or 15. You're like somebody who's a genius. He uses 15% or 13%, or 12. Like the difference? So human potential is such a huge thing. So you know, how do I make sure I'm on a trajectory, that that's moving me in the right direction, untapped potential, and tapping into altered states of consciousness until it becomes second nature. So that's something so meditation, contemplation. One of the big things that's come in the last few years, and I don't know if it's just the law, I think it is, is the use of psychedelics. And the people are having LSD experience. And this started in the 60s with like Tim Leary, and I always forget what rom das his name was before he became rom Das, but they were studying. There were some great studies on LSD. And Stanislav Grof, has done over 4000, guided LSD experiences, and they've tracked him so with science, one of the reasons they're using altered states of consciousness is people. And then it's another paradox because people have these LSD trips, and they think that they saw the real reality, right? Like, there's the waking reality, there's dreaming reality. And then you go, Well, if you've had a few beers, and you think someone's coming on here, like that's not really reality. But if you take a lot of LSD you can see actual reality seems kinda like but it's but what they've noticed that there's there's patterns. And that there's all it's not just humans, there's other animals. There's a cruise that that flopped down rooftops because they want to induce a state of altered consciousness. But these these LSD, I think it's providing kind of a framework and it's starting to become more mainstream. It's still not legal, but they're using MDMA to treat PTSD. And there's a lot of convincing studies, but I think meditation and a lot of these practices, it gives you access to some on those same altered states and Stan Grof, his legacy training, it's the collograph legacy training, it's Holotropic breathwork. So it's using your breath. And you can train yourself until until it becomes second nature. And that's one of the things that when you train yourself, you can overcome some of those knee jerk reactions like, like, I have certain things I used to just react if my kids would say it. And it's kind of sad too, because I have three kids. The oldest is awesome. He's Cody, he works for us, my daughter have mentioned before. She's 22, she's a senior at Oregon State. And my youngest just turned 18. And by the time I got to my youngest, I did change quite a bit. And it's not fair to the oldest. He got like, Mark 1.0, and then Drake up Mark 3.0. But I don't react in a lot of the same ways. And, it's just because of practice. And it's funny because my older son, you know, all the stuff that that we were kind of struggling about when he was younger, now that he's an adult, he does things for me without being asked him because he just knows that important to me. And then, and then my youngest is kind of coming along in a different in a different way. And it's it's just interesting. Transformation. But yeah. Go ahead and learn more about tapping into those altered states of consciousness at I've shared some of the practices that I do. And actually some of the people like, I wanted to mention, Vicki Dello Joio, she does the joy, practice of joy Qigong, they've trained a lot with her. Her website is a great and she has some free stuff. She offers classes, a lot of its online now, but people can really learn a practice like that. It just It permeates into the whole rest of your life.

Dr. Jeremy Weisz 52:02

Mark that was gonna say I was gonna say, people should check out more episodes of the podcast, they can check out and much more and, and thanks for having me.

Mark Hiddleson 52:13

Yeah, thanks, Jeremy. I mean, all these conversations are always awesome. I I know we're gonna do this again. I can't I can't wait. It's always good to hang out with you.

Outro 52:22

Thanks for listening to The Tao of Pizza Podcast. We'll see you again next time. And be sure to click subscribe to get future episodes.


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