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Zen of Strength With Shawn Phillips

Updated: Oct 4, 2022

Mark Hiddleson

Shawn Phillips is an internationally respected strength and fitness expert and the Chief Creator and Anarchist of Full Strength Nutrition, LLC. He has been helping athletes, celebrities, and tens of thousands of people achieve strong, healthy bodies for over two decades. Shawn is also a best-selling author and pioneer in sports nutrition and fitness. He has embarked on an integrated approach called Zen of Strength which combines the intensity of martial arts and the mindfulness of yoga with the muscle of strength training. He is a founding member of The Integral Institute, a leader in the human potential movement, and a highly sought-after expert in integrating connections with the body, mind, and spirit.

Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn:

  • Shawn Phillips' health and fitness background and why he wrote Strength for Life

  • The integral life approach portrayed in Shawn's book

  • The connection between strength training, fitness, and focus

  • How Mark Hiddleson uses Shawn’s strength training approach to manage stress and what he loves about his book

  • Shawn talks about nutritional freedom and his favorite podcasts

In this episode…

Living a healthy lifestyle starts with mindfulness and making intentional decisions around the food you eat and how you exercise. Do you want a better way to look great, feel great, and unleash your full strength?

Everyone has the potential to reach a higher state of fitness — it’s about knowing how to get there. With 25 years in the health and fitness realm, Shawn Phillips helps people connect to their emotions and integrate strength training with improved focus to bring about lasting changes. He shows them how to use strength training to increase energy, manage emotions, and recharge. There are ways to improve your awareness of your relationship with food—which will dramatically increase your freedom to make healthier choices, thereby increasing your overall energy, vitality, and well-being in every aspect of your life. He helps people live more intentional integral lifestyles by connecting the mind, body, and spirit.

In this episode of The Tao of Pizza Podcast, Mark Hiddleson interviews Shawn Phillips, author and fitness expert, about the Zen of Strength and living a holistic life. They also discuss Shawn's book, nutritional freedom, and creating an integral connection between strength training and focus.

Resources mentioned in this episode:

Sponsor for this episode...

This episode is brought to you by Specialized Storage Solutions Inc.


I have been in the logistics and storage industry for several decades. I know I don’t look that old, but it's true..

We provide industry-leading warehouse storage solutions nationwide.

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I will even give you my personal email address for podcast listeners so email me at if you’re ready to take your warehouse storage and retrieval systems to the next level.

Episode Transcript:

Intro 0:01

Welcome to The Tao of Pizza where we feature top logistics leaders, entrepreneurs and supply chain innovators and share their inspiring stories with a holistic twist.

Mark Hiddleson 0:14

Mark Hiddleson here, host of The Tao of Pizza Podcast where I talk with top industry innovators in the warehousing logistics, and supply chain business with a holistic twist. And we've got a really special guest today. But before I introduce author Shawn Phillips, this episode is brought to you by Specialized Storage Solutions. Listen, I've been in the logistics industry for several decades. And I know I don't look that old, but it's true. And we provide leading industry warehouse storage solutions nationwide. So basically, if you have a warehouse that needs rack, shelving, carts, conveyors, or mezzanines, we help with design engineering installation inspections and repairs to help clients optimize their logistics operation. Shawn, sometimes people don't even realize we can actually help with permit acquisition services. We take a holistic look at your entire business chain ecosystem to develop the resources for continually improving your operation. learn more, visit our website Or give us a call at 707-732-3892. And I'll even give you my personal email address for podcast listeners. You can email me at If you're ready to take your warehouse and storage retrieval systems to the next level, now awesome.

Shawn Phillips 1:30

Hold on. Did you say

Mark Hiddleson 1:33

Yeah, it is. Okay. There you go. Yeah, it's

Shawn Phillips 1:41

There you go. Thank you.

Mark Hiddleson 1:42

So I'm, uh, I'm really honored. Shawn, I'm honored to have you on The Tao of Pizza. You're one of the people who could probably give a better explanation of why it's called Tao of Pizza. And Shawn Phillips is a best selling author. And pioneer I think is the is the understatement of the year, but Pyron pioneer in sports nutrition and fitness. Shawn Phillips is now embarked on an integrated approach called Zen of Strength, which combines the intensity of martial arts and the mindfulness of yoga with the muscle of strength train, Shawn's a founding member of the Integral Institute, a leader in the human potential movement in a highly sought after expert in the integration of body, mind and spirit. So it's great to have you on.

Shawn Phillips 2:26

Thanks, Mark. It's great to be here. It's always great to connect with you. And as The Tao of Pizza is because you know, it's a slice of every part of your life. Right? Bringing it all together, kind of like hey, we talked about interval we talked about Pizza and bringing every slice in.

Mark Hiddleson 2:41

Yeah, yeah. In the in the Tao, is kind of the wholeness of it. And the PDF is the parts and so you get the wholeness, and we're gonna get into a lot of those those conversations. I know. But I really I want to, I want to talk about give us tell us a story about how, what happened before he published Strength for Life. How did you get to become an author? What what wow,

Shawn Phillips 3:05

I mean, you know, I mean, if we want to go into into the background where All right, so she's, yeah. I'm gonna give you the Reader's Digest version. First of all, you got a better background set than I do right now. So I'm gonna land you sir. I kind of didn't prep today. So yeah, I'm gonna get it don't give it don't send the room rater at me. You don't know what the room rater is, but I do. So the, the, um, so I started in health and fitness, you know, really as a teenager in high school sports and stuff. And my brother and I started really teaching instructing, you know, high end supplements and nutrition in the early 90s. We launched a magazine called Muscle Media magazine, biggest magazine really was a exploding thing. And we were sort of the anti wieder boys, like Joe wieder and his brother. And we were like the, you know, we're the other other solution Bill and Shawn Phillips, right. And so we started what became the world's largest sports nutrition company called the EAS where we couldn't use some of your racking although we did have really awesome purple racking in the warehouse because purple was our color, right? So it was it was gorgeous and all color coded and stuff and we kept enough room to park the Ferraris and Lamborghinis

Mark Hiddleson 4:27

like that Ferraris and Lamborghinis, that better.

Shawn Phillips 4:30

Yeah, that's good. That's good. And so we did that. And then my brother wrote a book called Body for Life in the year 2000 2001. About the time we sold the ALS and got moving on to a couple other companies. So you know, of course, you wouldn't want to my best clients for the 12 years I ran full strength nutrition, which is not done but on hold right now. And I really started focusing on nutrition for men over 40 Really, and I you know, you know, not nothing against the girls and men out there, but I just really felt like men needed the emphasis and focus, especially over the age of 40. So I started that move about, I call it roughly a decade ago, but it's a few years over a decade ago, I wrote Strength for Life, which was really about bringing so I had to do two things Strength for Life, because you know, Body for Life, the best selling fitness book in history, I mean, there's like 10 million copies sold, right? You know, there's been more diet books sold. But when it comes to really an integrative fitness solution, there's been no more than Body for Life. So I was, I had to bring something I've been working on since the late 90s, which is really a mindfulness approach kind of meditative approach. I started meditating, probably like you, I started meditating in the mid 90s, and started understanding, you know, reading philosophy reading the philosopher's, you know, I got a hold of Ken Wilber, his work The, you know, the founder of the Integral Institute and the creator, really the integral mindset. And of course, you know, as we're going to talk about a little bit later, we'll talk about George Leonard, Mike Murphy, and Exelon Institute and how all those things come into play. But I started bringing all that stuff together. And what I did is I brought Body for Life, I brought the tangible aspect of strength training, the importance of strength, training, nutrition, mindfulness, in really an integral, an integral work and Strength for Life. The interesting thing is, there's been a lot of integral books written, but they're all integral auto mechanics, integral cooking, integral meditation, integral living, right, there's been very few books that have integrated the integral without calling it integral, right?

Mark Hiddleson 6:35

That's what I love. When I've looked it up. When I picked I picked that book up at the airport, probably finding when it just came out, and I'd never heard of you or anything. And I had heard of Body for Life, but I just graduated with my master's degree in holistic health education. When I saw the title, and I said, it's not Body for Life, it's strength. Because your body's going to go through changes that are really, you know, aging ground. It's not anything you do gravity is going to have its effect over the years. Right. And yeah, I was getting to that. When I picked up the book, I was probably just approaching that almost 40. Yeah, and you still kind of fill in the struggle, but I was graduating Holistic Health, I picked it up. And you're right, it doesn't say anything. Like this is a holistic approach. But immediately by reading combat, I said, this is a holistic approach. This is and I had studied Wilbur in George. And I said, like, this is an integral. I mean, I call it integral life practice.

Shawn Phillips 7:32

Yeah. And that's I mean, you know, as, as the integral is to put together their book on Integral life practice, you know, my focus intensity training, which is at the heart of the strength training practice, is the Gold Star integral practice, it is in their ILP. And, you know, it is so and that's one of the things I knew that if you know, integral, and you know, you know, spiral dynamics, if you understand consciousness, if you're a mindfulness practitioner, you will recognize that that's what's in the book. Exactly. But if you're not, and you're more of a fitness aficionado, or you know, a muscle guy or something like that, you'll still pick the book up, and you'll get it downloaded to you without you having see if I came out and told your average fitness guy is the book on integral, they're gonna send it down to whatever the hell that is.

Mark Hiddleson 8:21

Yeah, all quadrants all level. All lines. Yeah. levels, lines, states and stages. Yeah. Spiral dynamics and gray. Yeah. And I've also heard, I've heard other people. I mean, I love integral theory. But one of the challenges is when people get it, they look at it as kind of another ladder decline. Yeah. Instead of digesting the way it was like, oh, I want to jump from first to second stair. And it's like, Wait a minute. It's not. It's about?

Shawn Phillips 8:48

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Well, that goes back to your chasing the flag thing you talked about when we were talking yesterday, right. about capturing the flag. Yeah, capture the flag. Yeah. Chasing, capturing, chasing versus capturing right capture.

Mark Hiddleson 9:01

Yeah, capture the flag, which is a game and it was. It's funny, because one of the things you know, I've been working. I've worked on that book for several years. But one of the first things I started doing when I started working with you, and I talked you into doing a one on one coaching I know that's not your normal. Yeah, yeah. But you started having me listen to podcasts. And I never you know, my best friend was was sending me Chris Johnson. He was sending me podcasts, but wow, that opened up such a window for me to go look and I found an old recording. I think it was like 2004 with George Leonard. Michael Murphy. And Ken Wilber.

Shawn Phillips 9:42

Oh my gosh. Yeah, recall that one. Yeah. Yeah.

Mark Hiddleson 9:46

And then they were talking about it and what that's what you know, Michael Murphy, he founded SLM. He's an author. He wrote several books. The one I can think of right now is Golf in the Kingdom, national bestseller, but he said on there. One of the keys of the success of and they wrote the book. It's escaped life were given that

Shawn Phillips 10:07

life forgiven. Yeah. Which is a beautiful book. I mean, it's a masterpiece. That's really the kind of the origin of the ILP. Integral life practice.

Mark Hiddleson 10:14

Exactly, exactly. And that's what he said is one thing that kept it going. And esslyn was so successful over the years as it nobody, quote unquote, captured the flag or said, you know, here, we found it. This is the only, you know, solution. And I think it's a trap that a lot of people fall into, they find something that works, and they go, Okay, this applies to everything.

Shawn Phillips 10:37

Yeah, and just we talked yesterday, we were saying, that's the you know, that's really a disease of the health fitness and nutrition world, right. I found the diet. I've got the among low carb man, I'm I'm back and saying, you know, I'm on keto. I'm doing paleo, you know, whatever the diet is a diet of the day. All right. I found bodyweight training because I used to use those cumbersome weights. And you're like, Yeah, you know, it's really, you know,

Mark Hiddleson 11:04

what's funny. So what's funny about that I was on another podcast, this came up, when I started working with you, the goal was to start working on a book, a book project. And within 90 days, I lost 25 pounds, was in the best shape of my life, and everything. And that wasn't my goal. But I will, it's funny today, I mean, we're gonna have this call, I'm thinking, Okay, I had three eggs, some feta cheese, some spinach of bacon, I've got to tell Chuck how to tell Shawn, what I've had to cappuccinos this morning, I probably have four or five glasses of water, but we just kind of started sharing. And we were doing it. We weren't talking about it, or it wasn't, it wasn't a particular diet, but I was food journaling. I was regular journaling. I was writing, training. And I want you to talk a little bit more about fit. Because one of the things that I loved about Strength for Life is, and I don't know if it was before I read it, or after I read it, but strength training is that's kind of my go to meditation. And people think, well, you're building your body. While you're actually when you're building your mind, you might say more

Shawn Phillips 12:10

about Well, no, yeah, focus intensity training. So what I did is I broke down, you know, you know, I was tasked with it with the interval teaching meditators, yoga practitioners how to how to deal with strength training, and it's an interesting process to get them to understand that it's not some egoic experience, and that the real thing is about being there, and connecting your mind to muscles and being in the moment, you know, and so what I teach with focus, which is that your mind drives the intensity of your muscles, right? So the focus and intensity, you know, and then you're training, right, so it's being in the zone. So what I teach people is how to use breath, grounding, charging. And so I have this kind of circle wheel that I teach this, and I get their elbows, their state elevated. And you know, so many people, even if they even if they know how to lift, even if they know what to do with with a bicep curl. So they, they go through the motion, and I say, the weights working them, they're not lifting the weight, right. So I'm creating a very intentional practice out of it, I get you to recharge to ground to feel the ground. And that becomes the kind of from integral perspective, there's three universal energies in their world, there's the gross, which is our gross physical self, right? There's the there's this causal, which is the energy might be called your aura, the energy around you the energy you feel from other people, when you see them, then there's the subtle energy, which is the energy field of the universe, right? So what we're doing, in fact, is we're really bringing all those energies into play, you know, because you're, you're, you're actually connecting, you're grounding, you're charging, you're bringing your breath energy, but they're also you're doing your exercise very intentionally, which lands you very much in the moment. So you're, you're actually here. So instead of chasing the end of the workout, you're actually enjoying the process of the rep. You know, I even teach you ways to count backwards or ways to, you know, count, like one to 10 ones to 10 one sets, I said, Did you understand if 10? Were you chasing to get to number 10 1-234-567-8910? No, I just do 12131415 Right? So you count the five on the wet on the down, it's every every up or contraction is just one just one, two, you're giving it your all when you bring that kind of you know, energy into play, sorry, I have to reset my Oh, there goes my screen. And you bring that back into play bring that energy into the field, you really get into the moment and that really does something else which begins to give you that feedback, which is you know the dopamine cycle. So, you know, human beings are nothing but dopamine pursuers chasers and craving machines, right, right. You know, food, sex, alcohol, caffeine, exercise, they're always to increase our dopamine, dopamine Is the neurotransmitter of motion, motivation, Action Movement? Everything?

Mark Hiddleson 15:06

I'd put it sex, alcohol and then food. But yeah,

Shawn Phillips 15:10

yeah. I said not necessarily in that order.

Mark Hiddleson 15:14

Yeah, no, absolutely, yeah. Yeah. And it gives you access to that in the moment and not that I found to there's nothing that puts me more in the moment when I've got enough weight on me that I know, it's only as much as I could physically push off.

Shawn Phillips 15:31

Well, I mean, yeah, you don't have an option to not be focused. Yeah, if you're really doing some some moving, moving some iron, right? You know, I mean, you just don't have any option. And that's just that, that helps. But I, you know, I like to, you know, and I treat the whole workout more like, you know, you're going to a dojo, you know, so you have a preparatory engagement phase, you have a reflection phase and an exit, let you treat the thing, treat your training, like with the respect that you would expect, if you walked into a dojo, the martial arts center, right, you don't just treat it like, you know, you know, it's not obligatory, it's actually an expression of greatness and joy and pleasure. But that transitions it for people. And when I would teach meditators and yoga practitioners, I would take them just through the fifth cycle through the grounding, and I'd help them feel like, you know, what, I use the bicep exercise out of Strength for Life, where if you just flex the bicep, people are like, Oh, I can kind of Yeah, I kind of feel that done. I have them look at it, touch it. So a touch training and and picture like marble and your bicep, like red Hummer, bro, just touch it, and then flex and you're like, Whoa,

Mark Hiddleson 16:39

whoa, so you're bringing in the visualization piece? Yeah.

Shawn Phillips 16:45

Is the touch training everything. But the reality is they teach you how to activate and to get in contact with the muscle in the body in such a way that you don't actually even have to touch it to, to really start to feel the ground and effect. I mean, that's one of the things you'll see like working on the physique, like I have for so many years and being in gyms forever, is how people will train all the front of their body but have no back development, because they can't see it in the mirror. Right. So they don't know how to train their back. Yeah,

Mark Hiddleson 17:15

I mean, it look you can tell and it's, it's funny we have so I've been working with my son for the last couple of years. I've told you we do your four XL muscle mass muscle man work to find this great workout. Yeah. But we, whenever I trained without something like that. I knew how to train I've been in gyms all life, but what would happen is I would do a few workouts and then go back and I always my favorite was chest. So you know if I did 10 workouts and then I kind of stopped for a few days when I went back I'd always go back to chest. It wasn't like I was going back to leg day. Yeah, I'm not going back to leg day. Yeah. So when when you have you know, you got 21 workouts and you're like, look, I'm doing these 21 workouts in the next 20 days. And you just do them in order. You go on there you go. Okay, today's Yeah, Life. We don't see it. We don't I still

Shawn Phillips 18:05

I still think that workout where I really want that workout to go. And I think now it's I think I put it into an app. Because I don't want you to know what tomorrow's workout is until you open it on that day. Right? And I want that was 28 workouts to every time you do it to change dynamically, right? Yeah. Yeah. You know, so the workouts always fresh, because you never know what tomorrow is gonna bring.

Mark Hiddleson 18:30

Yeah, yeah. And it's four different ways of training. It's zero

Shawn Phillips 18:34

energy systems. Man strength. Yeah, I named him after the places I stole him from right. The

Mark Hiddleson 18:39

beautiful, beautiful that good artists borrows with the great artists deals, right? Yeah, great artists. So I know you said you had a time limit on this. We've only got a few more minutes. And we're gonna have to do this again. I knew

Shawn Phillips 18:58

you knew I talked too much. That way. Oh, this is perfect.

Mark Hiddleson 19:00

This is perfect. I just, I haven't upgraded my my zoom thing. And I only have eight minutes and 25 seconds left for my subscription. Now, I know you said you had some things on the back end. And I definitely want to reschedule something I know. We want to get together in where this is valuable. A think of my clients a woman I've used strength training is if you're an entrepreneur, or you're the leader, innovator industry, you know, stress is going to take its toll and you know, there's a paradigm of with stress that I looked at in my masters here wasn't like we're, I'm not looking to avoid stress, but I'm looking to create to really build my system where I create great stress. Yeah, and they create strength. Increase my strength. Yeah. Because strength is

Shawn Phillips 19:53

strength is the resource right? Strength is the resource and I think every entrepreneur and every business person is looking for time. And, you know, they think time is the currency of life. The reality is energy is the currency of life. Right. And so what you really need is more energy. And I heard this on one of our, one of my favorite podcasts recently. And it was two guys that are real big strength. I mean, they're both doctors, PhDs, right. And one said the other he said, said, You know what, you'll never hear a 90 year old guy say, Gee, I wish I had less muscle. Who was it? It was, it was Layne. Biolase, his name Layne, Layne Norton and Peter Attia.

Mark Hiddleson 20:33

Yeah, I'm going to find the link to it. So any of the resources that we mentioned that we can find if they're available, I'll put a link in this. And we've got a few more minutes. And I really so for me in strength or life, it was focused intensity training, nutritional freedom, everything I thought was huge. And then kind of the anatomy of a 12 week like why 12 weeks is such a great.

Shawn Phillips 20:57

Yeah. Well, the 1212 12 which is 12, a primer, which is a preparation, a base camp, right 12 weeks, which is the training phase and 12 months, which is your annual kind of periodization. And plan and goals. Right? Yeah, you know, sometimes I look back on some of the things I wrote and did and I got him I was pretty smart.

Mark Hiddleson 21:15

Yeah. Share a little bit about nutritional freedom, just well,

Shawn Phillips 21:21

nutritional freedom quickly say is, it's really taking, you know, like you were talking about when we work together, how everything changed for you. And while I can think about it's one of those principles that you get from all your philosophical books, but certainly from Ken Wilber, which is awareness changes everything, right? So the minute you become aware of your cravings, your food, the things you're eating, and you focus more on the realm of how I'm feeling, not what I'm craving, right, you start to shift away from compulsive eating into eating. See, I don't watch people live on a diet, I want them to live in nutritional freedom, which is really, I have the awareness and the desire to eat the foods that are best for me, because they taste the best. They reward me the most. And they're the best for everything for all around. Right. That doesn't mean I don't you know, I don't eat chocolate cake. Right, right. You know, you eat things. It's it's all foods are like medicine, and it's the dose that creates the poison, right. A little bit of mercury doesn't kill you, but a lot will finish you off fast, right? It's you know, so the dose creates the poison. And that thing was food. I mean, I go out and have a hamburger, but it's because 80% of the time I'm doing the right thing. Right? Yeah. And so I remember Sologne said that to me, sly one time, he said, you know, he said as long as 80% of the time doing the right thing. 20% of time I can eat chocolate cake. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. You know, but nutritional freedom. We were I was telling you the other day, I laugh because you hear that whole diet app. neum is become such a big thing. I finally dug into it. I could tell what they were talking about. I dug into it. I go basically, somebody took Strength for Life's nutritional freedom and put it into an app. I go, Oh, that's good. It works. It's but it's just an awareness practice. Yeah,

Mark Hiddleson 22:58

it's and I put it in the category of mindfulness.

Shawn Phillips 23:02

Yeah, mindfulness.

Mark Hiddleson 23:06

If you divorce in its in the chapters of my book, gonna follow a certain thing with mindfulness when you take it out of the whole practice. And you're doing it to check another box. And even now, I'm changing though to my paradigm has shifted so many times when it comes to somebody saying like, Oh, I thought email was a fluke. Right? So that tells you how much I know about well, I will say is, I think email is on its way out.

Shawn Phillips 23:33

I think. I think it's it's it's got a ticking time bomb or clock on it. Right? I do you know, because yeah, I people, emails going for me the way a voicemail, somebody say I left you a voicemail. Well, that must be really nice. That's cute. I did it. Am I supposed to listen to it?

Mark Hiddleson 23:51

So that's why that's one of the reasons we started the podcast. I mean, there were there were three reasons I wanted a way to connect with my customers. And they're already getting bombarded with emails. So you know, my idea was I want to shout from the rooftops, some of the stories of the people and you're definitely at the top of the list. People that have helped me elevate my game. I mean, you took me from and things I've did. I mean, my marriage got better. Like I said, I was I didn't sign up with Shawn Phillips to lose 25 pounds. I thought I was already in the shape. Yeah, as long as I look good in my underwear, then I'm, I'm in shape, but it was just awesome. And I know you listen to podcasts, what's one of your favorite podcasts? Or if you've got a few?

Shawn Phillips 24:35

Oh, man, it's really tough because I have so many. I mean, I always you know, you know, I have a love hate with Tim Ferriss over the years, but Tim is a reliable, great podcaster. Right. And I really think Tim has grown over the last 15-20 years, he's really grown up and he's become more human, more, less of a machine and more of a human being and he's willing to call out his flaws and faults and look back on himself and laugh, right? Yeah, yeah. And so, I mean, that's one of my favorite. I listened to a lot of very technical stuff that a lot of people would just roll their eyes when they try to listen to it or go into a coma. You know, you HDS in health, fitness, nutrition, neuro psychology and stuff like that. So, Dr. PETA, Tia I listened to quite a bit and I have an insider membership there. I listened to I have to be honest, I listened to The Bulwark. I love The Bulwark man. It's one of my favorites. It's Charlie Sykes. And he's he's a 35 years of daily Republican right wing radio in recovery.

Mark Hiddleson 25:44

And I love that we'll all all put links, I'll find links, all those I'll put in there. But I want to be the first to Thank you, Shawn for coming on in. I'm gonna put Tim Ferriss as your as your favorite podcast. Yeah, Lyons is I'm not a huge Tim Ferriss fan. But I read all of his books. I know, for our body Tools of Titans. And there's another one the add on mentors, but, but this has been awesome. So I know. For sure. We'll want to make time to do this again. It's been a pleasure.

Shawn Phillips 26:17

Well, yeah, I mean, I appreciate it. Mark. It's great to be here. So I was great talking with you and great energy and we have a good laugh about stuff and and when I I'd love to come back and talk about the the decade reflection on Strength for Life that I'm working on and the audio platform I'm building around, it's gonna be fun, cool piece.

Mark Hiddleson 26:35

Absolutely. And we're gonna have a will that's going to be available to we'll make sure that we get that on the next one.

Shawn Phillips 26:41

All right, cool, dude, great, brother. It's all right, man. You too, man.

Outro 26:44

Thanks for listening to The Tao of Pizza Podcast. We'll see you again next time and be sure to click Subscribe to get future episodes.


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