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The Integral Worldview of the Clown With Mark Hiddleson

Updated: Oct 4, 2022

Mark Hiddleson

Mark Hiddleson is the Owner of Specialized Storage Solutions, Inc., a nationwide logistics company with industry-leading warehouse storage solutions. It provides clients with innovative products, facility layouts, and designs to optimize their logistics operations.

Mark has several decades of service experience in the warehousing and logistics industry with leadership roles in several professional industry organizations. Using a holistic approach, he also has experience in equipment material handling, operations management, supply chain optimization, professional development, and public speaking. He holds a bachelor’s in economics and a master's degree in holistic health education.

Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn:

  • Mark Hiddleson explains what the worldview of the clown means and why he chose to relate to the clown archetype

  • How worldviews are notoriously sticky in relation to George Bernard Shaw and Elon Musk

  • Famous people with the clown archetype

  • Mark explains how the clown archetype has been beneficial in his life

  • How using humor can positively impact business communication and relationships

  • Mark's strategies for tapping into his inner authenticity to run his business

In this episode…

People see the world from a different point of view, often influenced by the archetype with which they relate. This dramatically impacts their personality, how they relate with others, and their values.

Mark Hiddleson relates with the clown archetype. And although life has many challenges, he reminds himself not to take things too seriously. He views humor as a great source of relief in both his personal and professional life. He enjoys having fun, sharing jokes, and having a good laugh.

In this episode of The Tao of Pizza Podcast, host Mark Hiddleson is interviewed by Dr. Jeremy Weisz, Co-founder of Rise25 Media, about the integral worldview of the clown. Mark shares tips for tapping into your authentic self and explains how the clown archetype has been beneficial in his life.

Resources mentioned in this episode:

Sponsor for this episode...

This episode is brought to you by Specialized Storage Solutions Inc.


I have been in the logistics and storage industry for several decades. I know I don’t look that old, but it's true..

We provide industry-leading warehouse storage solutions nationwide.

So basically if you have a warehouse that needs Rack, Shelving, Carts, Conveyors or Mezzanines we help engineering, installations, inspections, and repairs to help clients optimize their logistics operations.

Sometimes people don’t even realize that we can actually help with permit acquisition services.

We take a look holistic at your entire business supply chain ecosystem to develop the resources for continually improving your operation.

To learn more, visit or give us a call at (707) 732-3892. One of the best ways to learn more about our products and services is to follow us on instagram. And there’s a link on our website to do that.

I will even give you my personal email address for podcast listeners so email me at if you’re ready to take your warehouse storage and retrieval systems to the next level.

Episode Transcript:

Intro 0:01

Welcome to The Tao of Pizza, where we feature top logistics leaders, entrepreneurs and supply chain innovators and share their inspiring stories with a holistic twist.

Mark Hiddleson 0:13

Mark Hiddleson here, host of The Tao of Pizza Podcast where I talk with top industry innovators in warehousing, logistics and supply chain business with a holistic twist. I got Dr. Jeremy Weisz here of Rise25 who's done thousands of interviews with successful entrepreneurs and CEOs. And we've kind of flipped the script today, and he'll be interviewing me.

Jeremy Weisz 0:32

Mark, I'm excited. And just for a second, talk about some other episodes people should check out the podcast so far.

Mark Hiddleson 0:38

So really, I did an interview with Shawn Phillips, and I think that's great. He's best selling author of the book Strength for Life. He was my coach. I've been in masterminds with Shawn and had a great conversation with me. People should check out that episode.

Jeremy Weisz 0:52

Awesome. You know, we're going to talk about an interesting topic. And I don't know exactly what you're going to say today. But it involves what you talk about, which is integral worldview of the cloud, right? So you definitely take a holistic spin on things. So I'm excited about this before we dig into it. This episode is brought to you by specialized storage solutions. And listen, Mark, I've known you for a while now, I know you've been in the logistics and storage industry for several decades now. And you know, you provide industry leading warehouse storage solutions nationwide. Basically, what that means is if you have a warehouse that needs rack, shelving, carts, conveyors, mezzanines, you help people design engineering, installations, inspections, repairs, and optimize their actual logistic operations. All right, and sometimes people don't even realize that you actually help people with permit acquisition services as well, anything that needs to be done, you make sure it happens, it gets done, and because you look holistically at the entire business supply chain ecosystem, as well, so you can learn more, you go to Give them a call. Also at 707-732-3892. Mark even decided if you are a podcast listener, he got his personal email address, you can email him at If you're ready to get your warehouse and storage and retrieval systems to the next level, contact them market. So what does it mean the worldview of the clown?

Mark Hiddleson 2:26

So it's a Aragorn worldview, and the clown is an archetype. And archetypes is one way of talking about worldviews. And I chose him when I when I did my master's degree. This is a project that I worked on probably 10 years ago, I created a, a class on archetypes based on a book by Caroline Myss called Sacred Contracts. And when I was studying was to Kelty how to create projects. It wasn't like writing a paper we had to create. We call it a project, they were usually 12 weeks. So I created this 12 week class because Caroline Myss wrote a great book, I was interested in talking about worldviews and integral, you can get really deep, there's some great authors on it. And I was always looking for a way like how can you practically apply this. So I created a class and then I was client zero, I was student zero. And I had a lot of fun with this, but it's basically going through she's created. You know, archetypes are like the relay for the collective consciousness. Carl Jung had this idea that there's this collective collective collective consciousness that we can tap into for wisdom and that everybody has these things that they embody, like one of the famous one is a hero or the knight in shining armor, and, but there's a lot of different archetypes. So I created this. And then when I when I did this book, and it was important that I included in this, like, how do you include these and so for each chapter, there's an archetype. And this is actually kind of random, the worldview but but the way it is, it's funny as random, but as soon as I did it, because the way this class evolved, you picked your archetypes, and they were one through 12. And you kind of just drew it out of a hat and go, Okay, number one is going to be a clown, they drew it out of a hat, Don Juan. And so that's how you kind of create this project. But the thing is, I really, you know, I chose the clown worldview because I love me, one of my values is you know, rule number one is enjoy the journey to want to laugh hard laugh often, you know, and what's funny, I'm usually end up laughing at myself, which is the comedy, you know, life and, and that kind of, it's a lot of my personality and it is it is a worldview. And then the integral part is just kind of taking things, you know, like archetypes, and lines and levels of developments and then applying it to the real world. So, and really all of these archetypes they show up in different ways in all the chapters. The other thing is this worldly thing is kind of a slippery thing. And so it was really glad when the clown came up because you know, when you get into talking theory about different you know, spacetime paradigm versus a mechanistic paradigm and holistic paradigm. And there's some great authors who talk about this stuff. And I just kind of know the, you know, the layman's terms of how to explain things that there's these different worldviews, but Ken Wilber and spiral dynamics as we get further into this, I might share more information because spiral dynamics has some really interesting views on worldviews and how they apply. But the reason is, the clown is because I'm a first class

Jeremy Weisz 5:28

clown. See, chose that one first?

Mark Hiddleson 5:32

Well, I didn't choose it. So I went through the process of the class and it takes him the first few weeks, you're reading all these archetypes because some of them you don't identify with, you know, the ones identified with where the athlete, clown, knight in shining armor. But you also you know, take some time. And she Caroline Myss does a great job because she gives summaries of what the archetypes are. And and then the other thing is there not one of the important parts of this process is it's not positive or negative. It's not like the clown is a good thing, or a bad thing, because it's just the clown. I mean, and I've been in trouble before I, you know, sometimes I make a joke. And then it's not that funny. Because there are times when it's not appropriate. And it's like, yeah, we're gonna laugh or laugh often. But I remember I went to a class, it was a five day class really intensive and the leader that you could really tell me, she was first class gal, newer stuff. And at the end of it, you know, she had traveled across the country. And she said something to me, are you signing up for the next class, and for me, it was a no brainer that I was going to do it. I gotten everything. And I made some comment, like, well, you know, I'm going to be one of the leaders or like, because she had made a comment about, you know, people who weren't going to sign up or anything. I'm, I'm one of those I'm, you know, I'm gonna be a rebel. And I could just kind of see like, she was tired. I said, it wasn't, you know, I ended up going the next day. I said, Man, I had no idea. You know, when I said that, she goes, No, no, I get it. But, you know, they could take it too far. So none of these are really positive or negative, the archetypes but it's just it's an awareness. And for me, one of the most important things of paradigms is just that you're aware that we have all these filters that we see live through, everybody has them. And the more aware of it you are, the more you can use it for the greater good.

Jeremy Weisz 7:20

You know, Mark, I know you've thought about this a lot. And that worldviews in generously in general are notoriously sticky. And, you know, you may have mentioned, Ralph Emerson and Elon Musk, you want to talk about how this relates to the the worldview.

Mark Hiddleson 7:39

Yeah, so the, the Emerson is a good one, what the first came to mind when he said worldviews are notoriously sticky. And there's this great quote, and I put in my book, it's George Bernard Shaw. In the beginning of his book, he wrote a book called Man and Superman, and it was a kind of when he was, uh, it was funny. So his point is, he said, and George Bernard Shaw was a, I guess, he was really famous for being a socialist. And he was writing about the greater good of socialism and everything in his book, Man and Superman. But in the beginning, so what I'm afraid of is that it's going to be like, there was this lady who was going to the Hall of Science, everyday thinking she was going to this famous church in England, but it was really this whole science, but it was a brilliant lecture. And he had great notes. And he was talking about evolutionary biology, he was actually an atheist. But the lady sat there for years thinking that was the greatest sermon she ever because she thought he was in church. And that was the thing. So what's funny is George Bernard Shaw was a socialist. When I read his book, I read it from a capitalist point of view, I'm like, Oh, this applies to capitalism, this so I kind of did the same thing, what he was afraid of, I read it, but I read my worldview into it. So it's just people. It just, it's not natural, because you kind of you know, a lot of how you create their worldviews through survival, you know, things work, and you keep doing it, and you don't even realize or you learn it from your parents. And so, I love that quote from from George Bernard Shaw, and it's true people, whatever the message is, you'd love to hear what you want to hear. And I'm actually I'm one of those guys, I do I hear what I want to hear. And so I know, I checked myself a lot to make sure I'm not doing that.

Jeremy Weisz 9:24

So how does Elon Musk relate to?

Mark Hiddleson 9:28

Well, it's funny because he's when I wrote this, he wasn't as much in the news as he is right now. But, uh, I mean, he's looking, you know, I call my, my process that he used to a spacetime audit, and he's, you know, what, Einstein's whole theory? You know, a lot of people all the Weinstein's experiments were thought experiments because they didn't have the tools or technology that that we have right now. And he had this thought experiment, so it wasn't even wasn't even reality. And sometimes when you think about it's like, well, who cares? There's why is it that space and time are connected? And what and why should we even care? And, and there were diagrams, and it's funny. So I hesitate to get too far into this. But, you know, Elon Musk has a vision that really, it goes beyond Einstein. So Einstein kind of went beyond Newton. I mean, Newton gave us the mechanical universe that he could call like a billiard, you know, billiard ball universe where, you know, energy and matter, interact. But Einstein kind of went beyond that. And now I think, the people like Elon Musk, and there's others, they're looking at what's what's beyond the taking what Einstein and now, the instruments and everything we have they there, they proven everything that Einstein only did in thought experiments. One of my favorite ones is a sketch because I love sketches. So my spacetime paradigm, and there's these it's a guy after Einstein as men, kowski, made men kowski diagrams there. It's just like a simple Cartesian coordinate, but the good draw, why it makes a difference that the earth is moving, and we're moving, so we're really not moving in a straight line. And the last time I was explaining this to somebody I gave them and somebody else came along, getting Penrose and actually made a better diagram. So there's the Minkowski diagram and the Penrose diagram that goes like, dude, isn't it cool that they named diagram after the guy? Then, like, yeah, and that's the kind of the how deep, I like to get into that. But it's basically, you know, what was possible. before Einstein, he wouldn't have been possible to have GPS, GPS, satellite data, he wouldn't, gave us satellites, nukes, and space travel, really. And so I signed created that capacity. Now, to me, you know, Elon Musk is a guy that who's picking up the ball, and I don't, I don't watch enough in the news or anything. They actually know what's going on. I know, he's buying Twitter already bought Twitter or something like that. But I just see him as a visionary. He's looking beyond. So we're in this FaceTime paradigm now. And there probably is something beyond that. You know? And I think,

Jeremy Weisz 12:04

you know, I want to just say, No, people, check out the other episode that we did, actually about the space time audit, where you kind of break down what that is, and different elements, it's actually really fascinating to think about how you explained it. So I want to encourage people to check out that episode. And, you know, are there any people that you think of out there because we're talking about the integral worldview of the clown, and you relate to that integral worldview, who else sticks out? Famous, maybe business person, actor, who also is similar, and embodies a large part of them, you see that? That clown archetype?

Mark Hiddleson 12:46

So one of my, my favorites is, is Bill Murray. And, and the thing I love is that, you know, he's been one of the first movies I ever saw was Meet Bob Olsen he was in that he's been in as a great one that I saw recently. It's an old one, I can't think of it was a Hunter Thompson book, and where the buffalo roam. And the thing is, I read, there's actually a book called The doubt, Bill Murray two, which is funny, because the name of this is Dale pizza. But when you look at what it takes, you know, he was on Saturday Night Live. And a lot of those people that just showed up, and they were successful, but it was really hard work. And there was a ton of practice that went into delivering that. And you know, what I love about when I wrote about the book, you don't see that on the air, he just needed to see the clown, you don't see the work underneath that, you know, he they practice their routines. They showed up early, they stayed late. And I just admire him and in his career, he's, I think he's still making stuff. I mean, one of the last ones that I've seen recently, he had a movie called St. Vincent, which probably that's even been a while now. But, I mean, he's one and I'm trying to think of somebody in the business world, you know, it's people who take chances, but dumber is the first one that comes along.

Jeremy Weisz 14:08

How has it helped you? Like you said, it's not good or bad? It just is right? And you mentioned a scenario where maybe that clown archetype, that part of you, is part of you. Maybe didn't help with joking around with that lady? What's an example of where it has helped you in your life or business?

Mark Hiddleson 14:31

So, you know, the thing is, no matter what business you're in, things can suck. You know, things happen. People make mistakes. And there's a with the with the clown archetype with humor, it's an emotion, I think it's something that it helps with a lot of things. A lot of times I'll make a joke about something that helps somebody remember a request that I've asked them because it's one thing if you just tell somebody they get the information, but if you put them motional where there's kind of a joke to it that the people get it. There's actually I read a story, I'm fascinated about when, like when humans started writing, like, for a long time, there was no writing. People just talk about stories and everything. And eventually, they they invented writing after language. And one of the first things that was ever written down was a joke. Because the king says something. He thought it was funny. And he was like, Okay, now what? And so he invented it, that write this down. And it's just there was this when I was a kid, when my cousins were all the cousins would come for holidays, or whatever. We tells me dirty jokes, as we can remember. And then we would, we'd run out of jokes that we heard at school or everything. And so we get the Reader's Digest, and Reader's Digest had the section was called laughter is the best medicine. And my dad's like that. You know, what if I think of a businessman who's a clown, the hero would probably be my dad. Because it's like, if you saw my dad, you have no idea he's a really good athlete, you'd have no idea that he's a great businessman great relationships is just seems like a clown. But but about the the humor, and the laughter is the best medicine. So we would go through Reader's Digest, and we would take the clean jokes in there, and then we would make them very, there's just a lot of fun way to pass time. But, um, another thing that I have, I have a tendency to really take myself too seriously, too. I mean, it's a clown archetype. Yeah. But I like to joke around, I like to have a good time. When I'm in business mode, sometimes I get tunnel vision. And I forget to have a good time. And I forget, I have to look at that dashboard and values and go away. And my rule number one was have fun. We're not having fun anymore, guys. And it's not as serious as I'm making it. Maybe I'm taking myself too seriously. I'm taking this. So into me an entrepreneur, that's one of the best things he can have as a relief, you know, and sometimes I'll just call a friend and I'll tell them what's going on. And he'll say something like, yeah, you know, because you're knucklehead or are we just love? And?

Jeremy Weisz 17:11

Yeah, I see that, like, you can, it changes the whole tone of the conversation, whether it's a colleague or a staff. And you can reprimand someone or be serious but but your friend or even saying it to his staff, just kind of joking around. But you're you're not really joking. I mean, you're being serious, but you're saying it in, like, in a loving, you know, light hearted way, I guess you could say,

Mark Hiddleson 17:35

exactly. Yeah, it changes the tone. And you can say things. That's the other thing about the King, the court jester, the importance of a court jester is that he can say things to the cane that nobody else can say. And it's just kind of the same thing with joking you can joke you can start to you know, it's creating a space to your it's actually when you do that it is you're creating a space for communication, where it might have been closed off. So humor, I've used it to open you know, open doors, and that's, it's kind of gets into the clown that's the clown evolving into the dawn one archetype too is is just using humor as a way to go hey, I realized you know, nobody's gonna get hurt. Here's not this because because sometimes it can be intimidating thing is like, well, you know, I don't want to talk to this guy or I don't want to say something. I think it also opens the door people can give me feedback because I do I want feedback even if I'm in a leadership role, or I'm the owner of the company or anything, and people know Hey, he's joking around that maybe if I put this in the joke, the king won't chop my head off and get it get their heads chopped off sometimes.

Jeremy Weisz 18:42

Like word of warning anyone wants to give me feedback you make

Mark Hiddleson 18:46

no I'm just saying that's That's

Jeremy Weisz 18:49

it? Yeah, I mean, it makes maybe even more relatable humanizes you a little bit so people will tend to maybe not lucky like oh the big boss I can I can I feel comfortable enough to give him feedback he'll take feedback and you know and not you know, bite back at me as much.

Mark Hiddleson 19:08

Yeah, and the more I think about I mean most of my great it's just a great it's a great way to have a checkpoint reality one of my best friends used to have the sticker was on a Windows a clear window, the sticker just kind of a decal windows a checkpoint reality, and it was kind of cool where it was because you've looked out the window, you'd be seeing everything else but then every once in awhile, you'd see that sticker and it does. It's a good checkpoint reality for me. And then also as I'm taking it too far,

Jeremy Weisz 19:36

you you've also thought about some of the things you're you're mentioning about authenticity, and kind of just listening to yourself and what's inside you to help you run your business or your life like you mentioned with being fun loving and, and you have kind of like a secret weapon of how you kind of tap into that. Authentic Has any authenticity and wisdom?

Mark Hiddleson 20:02

Well, it's, it's the secret is that it's in your body. And, you know, one of the things with paradigms in going into, you know what it means to have a spacetime paradigm at some point, you know, on and off, they blame it on Rene Descartes, when he said, I think, therefore, I think, therefore I am. And there was this Mind, Body split. And in my secret weapon is, is to center in my body because your body doesn't lie. And that's what people can tell if if you're not authentic, then people can tell I think being authentic is something I appreciate in people. I'm drawn to people who I think, are authentic. And so I tapped into my body's wisdom, there's a few different ways that I do that. I'm not sure which one you're asking. But and this is a great I practice, you know, so the thing is to not really do anything, I have a practice I've been practicing for for several decades Qigong or tai chi, or Aikido, which is a martial art that all martial arts, and it was funny as I didn't, I was just practicing, because I think it's fun. And then I you can be centered in your body. And, and not be afraid to hang in there. You know, if a conversation gets tough, a lot of times it's conversation, if there's conflict, people just close up, and then they go somewhere else, or they're already formulating their opinions, or in me included, I mean, things are going on right now things are going on in the background that I don't want. So I sent her I use my breath, and I use visualization. Visualization is one of those. It's kind of a, it is a secret weapon. And the way I received it, that's that's a great story. I should tell that. So I was an amateur athlete. This is 1985, I was thinking I was going to be a pro baseball player. And so I went with my coach, my high school coach, I was a freshman in high school. And one was my coach to a coaching clinic. Now none of the players went to the clinic. But I was I was like Mr. gung ho solo, this clinic and there was the baseball coach from cow was doing the talk. And he said, the most cutting edge thing we're doing right now. He says, as I run my guys, I run them till they're exhausted. So they can barely, you know, run wind sprints and where to end. And I have everybody lay on the ground, and just visualize themselves hitting the ball, if it's a pitcher, visualizing. So their bodies completely spent, you're exhausted. And he said that back then, you know, this was 1985, there must have been some studies about that. And I was the type of person that said, Well, this guy goes to Cal Berkeley, if he's saying it, I'm going to try it, it can't hurt. And I started doing that as a high school. And I played on the varsity team my freshman year. And I mean, it made a huge difference, that visualization. And then the last time I gave that example, I would do it when I was running, I would just I would pitch full innings in my mind will just pitch one strike one to n where I could throw the ball. And since then I read there's tons of studies, I mean, there's studies that say, you know, visualizing yourself, doing something is almost the same as practicing the physical motion. So it's tapping in to that mind body connection. And the most, I use it as an example. I have the same it's funny, I bought this book by Alan Watts, who's he's kind of a famous, he's like a Zen guy, but he's also Christian author, he was in the 70s. And he had all these sayings, his kids actually posted the publishers book after he died. And my kids said, Oh, we're gonna close the book about you and all your sage. And one of my sayings is, you gotta know what you're going to do before you get in there. And it's, I started to kind of as a joke, because our kids had a coach that was like that, and coaches, really, they don't coach like that anymore. I haven't seen a lot of coaches that do that kind of, you know, yelling at kids are in there, but you got to know what you're gonna do before you get in there. And I was using with fear. When fear comes up. I remember if I if I was going against a really good pitcher, there'd be this fear. And he'd seem like, well, this guy's throwing hard, is throwing strikes, he's got a curveball. And all this fear, getting chills thinking I'm getting chills, like, I'm gonna have to go into baseball at two minutes. But what I do to calm myself down, is I would just start visualizing one pitch, it's a fastball down the middle. And so I'm looking when I go in there, and I'm just visualizing one pitch one spot, before I get it, and if I don't see it, I'm not going to swing and the worst thing happens, he throws two strikes. And then if I had two strikes, I'm just going to try to fall something off, get something dirty. But those first two strikes, I'm just thinking, focus on the ball. And I've used that I've used that in business. If I'm nervous about a business meeting, or things are coming up. I never do that if I get in a fight. My wife, I probably should always forget, email in business, it's easy. And it's been on the field. And so that's, you know, athletes another archetype, it's tied to another chapter. But that is, and that's what they're all trying to enter entered connected to. It's like an ecology, all of these things. It's not like you're, you're a clown world, you'd been an athlete trainer, they all they all overlap and kind of feed each other.

Jeremy Weisz 25:31

No, I love that about know what you're going to do when you get in there. And, you know, there's, there's a lot of studies out there, I remember hearing something about Olympians using visualization imagery for their mental training. And I don't, I don't remember who it was, but someone was injured, and they would just run the race in their mind. And when they strapped electrodes to them, it seemed like the neurons in the brain the same neurons were firing. So it's powerful in business as powerful in sports, or whatever it is. So you know, I appreciate you, you sharing that. That part of it, but the other the other one I was talking about, so you do that to kind of center yourself and the visualization? And does the practice of the Chi Gong. And the other things relate to meditation?

Mark Hiddleson 26:21

It really does. So, so Chi Gong is, it's basically it's a moving meditation. And it's, it's a really, I don't know how old you know, it's five or 6000 year old tradition, and I've trained with, I've trained with a master, it's, it's just, it's hard to explain. It's one of those things that I did for so many years. And that I just enjoy. And you actually, I don't know how to say this. It's a beautiful. It's a practice, you practice something, it was just like practicing baseball. Because there's something you can do you know, when the heat's on, it's just like, players don't.

Jeremy Weisz 27:00

You're not thinking anymore. He's just reacting.

Mark Hiddleson 27:03

You're reacting. So it makes it hard to explain.

Jeremy Weisz 27:07

So meditation maybe slows things down a little bit.

Mark Hiddleson 27:09

Yeah, there's a good example is, I've heard it put this way is that if what you want, sometimes you can't see there's a field, it's like blades of a fan, that are spinning. And all you see if you see the family spin, you just see this barrier. But when you can get into your body, and slow down on these practices, the families almost slow down so much that you can reach through the other side, and pull back. What do you want? Or you can just see, well, this fan is something that I've created. Yeah, in the practice, the practice of Qigong is something I just incorporated it in, when I learned it, I did a three day workshop on it, you know, all day, three days, and I just thought, this is something I'm adding to, to my personal physical religion is what I call it. It's like, um, lift strength training, you know, prayer, meditation, but the moving meditations. And that's what when I started studying Taoism, I read it and I go, Wait a minute, I'm a Dallas, because part of it is the practice is not just the reading about it, or the concepts. It's actually putting it into practice, and really being grounded, grounded to the earth grounded in yourself. And some of the stuff it's really difficult to put into words that it's funny to the great reasons I decided to call the podcast, the Tao of Pizza, but the very first, Tao Te Ching is one of the main books of Taoism, which is a philosophy, it's not really a religion, it's more of a philosophy. But the very first verse is that, which is the true Tao, the eternal doubt, it can't be put into words that you see soon as you explain it. That's, it's not what you're talking about. It's a concept. And so it's just, it's been a lot of fun. And it also it, it transitions into other things that I do, too. It's funny, because now my practice is like pulling weeds. After practicing Qigong, and a lot of it is visualizing, you know, putting your roots in the earth. And then so now when I actually am dealing with Earth, or roots or everything, I'm thinking, Oh, wow, this is what it's like, the act of an email and also an act that used to be a pain in the ass, like taking out the garbage or pulling weeds or washing dishes. It's become a meditation for me. And it's funny, I've had to tap into that. Recently, we have back to back weekends coming up where we're gonna have 25 to 35 people in our home in our office. And so we've been in this prep mode, right? So every, every week, it's two things of yard waste out to the, to the street and my mantras been, how would I feel if if I was taking care of a monastery? You know what wouldn't be like if I was doing this, they a lot of people go to s one is a place in Big Sur is kind of the birth of the Human Rights boom, and people will apply to go and live there so that they can take care of the garden that they can do the weed. So, you know, I'm telling myself this is a practice of, you know, what would it be like, if I was having to do this for as long as they all you know, because stoked about it, we kind of cool.

Jeremy Weisz 30:24

First of all, Mark, this has been great. I want to point people to to learn more. And then just some of the things that you said about just thinking about the archetype, thinking of how the clown archetype can serve you serve someone out there, how it serves you and also just some of the things you do as far as the visualization and the meditation and the practice and the mantras and how that relates to, you know, holistically you know, health and business. So, I want to encourage people to check out more episodes of the podcast and, and thanks for having me.

Mark Hiddleson 30:59

It has been awesome, Jeremy. Thank you. Thank you very much.

Outro 31:03

Thanks for listening to The Tao of Pizza Podcast. We'll see you again next time and be sure to click Subscribe to get future episodes.


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