The Laws of Time and Money and Integral (Eco)nomics With the Child Archetype With Mark Hiddleson

Mark Hiddleson

Mark Hiddleson is the Owner of Specialized Storage Solutions, Inc., a nationwide logistics company with industry-leading warehouse storage solutions. It provides clients with innovative products, facility layouts, and designs to optimize their logistics operations.

Mark has several decades of service experience in the warehousing and logistics industry with leadership roles in several professional industry organizations. Using a holistic approach, he also has experience in equipment material handling, operations management, supply chain optimization, professional development, and public speaking. He holds a bachelor’s in economics and a master's degree in holistic health education.

Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn:

  • Mark Hiddleson explains different archetypes

  • The lessons Mark learned from his mentors

  • Mark talks about the value of setting high-end limits

  • Utilizing systems and structures to accelerate business growth

  • How to integrate integral (eco)nomics and the child archetype in business

  • Mark’s testimony of leveraging his network to complete a job

  • How Mark mixes business with pleasure

  • Mark's daily rituals

In this episode…

What is the connection between time, money, and relationships? How can you leverage your business network to grow and scale your company?

Businesses are centered around relationships with clients, employees, suppliers, partners, and investors. Creating value for your business through your network is essential for company growth. Mark Hiddleson, who leverages his network to find new clients and build his company, advises other business owners to nurture their business relationships. He also encourages learning new skills to stay competitive.

In this episode of The Tao of Pizza Podcast, host Mark Hiddleson is interviewed by Dr. Jeremy Weisz, the Co-founder of Rise25, about integrating integral (eco)nomics and the child archetype in business. Mark discusses the benefits of building relationships and business networks, utilizing systems and structures to accelerate business growth, and his advice on trading time for money.

Resources mentioned in this episode:

Sponsor for this episode...

This episode is brought to you by Specialized Storage Solutions Inc.


I have been in the logistics and storage industry for several decades. I know I don’t look that old, but it's true.

We provide industry-leading warehouse storage solutions nationwide.

So basically, if you have a warehouse that needs Rack, Shelving, Carts, Conveyors, or Mezzanines, we help engineering, installations, inspections, and repairs to help clients optimize their logistics operations.

Sometimes people don’t even realize that we can actually help with permit acquisition services.

We take a holistic look at your entire business supply chain ecosystem to develop the resources for continually improving your operation.

To learn more, visit or give us a call at (707) 732-3892. One of the best ways to learn more about our products and services is to follow us on Instagram. And there’s a link on our website to do that.

I will even give you my personal email address for podcast listeners, so email me at if you’re ready to take your warehouse storage and retrieval systems to the next level.

Episode Transcript:

Intro 0:01

Welcome to The Tao of Pizza where we feature top logistics leaders, entrepreneurs, and supply chain innovators and share their inspiring stories with a holistic twist.

Mark Hiddleson 0:17

Mark Hiddleson here, host of The Tao of Pizza Podcast where I talk with top industry innovators in the warehousing, logistics, and supply chain business with a holistic twist. Before I introduce today's guest, I wanted to mention I had a great conversation last week with Sal Fateen and another episode of check out with Chris Murphy. So please check out those other episodes. And today I have Dr. Jeremy Weisz here of Rise25 who's done thousands of interviews with successful entrepreneurs and CEOs. And today we flip the script and he will be interviewing me. Jeremy?

Dr. Jeremy Weisz

Mark, I'm excited. You are like the holistic business ninja. I don't know what else to call you. But we're going to talk about integral economics and the child archetype because you are a master at kind of relating these archetypes to real life, how to use this in your life and how to use it in your business. And so we're going to talk about that before we do. This episode is brought to you by Specialized Storage Solutions. And you know, anyone who knows you, Mark, they know you've been in logistics and storage industry for several decades. And you provide industry leading warehouse storage solutions nationwide. So basically, if you have a warehouse, call mark, that's what I tell people and like they have a warehouse and like just call them. You know racks, shelving, carts, conveyors, mezzanines, design, engineering, installations, anything, just call him he knows people. If he can get it done, he knows someone who can get it done, right. So if you have questions, you can go or give him a call at 707-732-3892. He even decided to give his personal email address for podcast listeners. So if you have questions, you can email him, it's if you're ready to take your warehouse storage and systems to the next level. So, Mark, tell me about the integral economics.

Mark Hiddleson 2:24

Thank you for that introduction, Jeremy. So kind of wanted to review in why the archetypes and everything before we get to the economics, because if I just go through a list of everything that, you know, first of all, economics is not just about money. It's an I put the ego part of economics, in parentheses, because all the way from the beginning of this is the fifth episode of these. So you know, please check out the other episodes too. But just to kind of review, we talked about the worldview through the lens of the clown archetype. And I chose to do the archetypes just because it's a it's a self awareness practice that I've done over the years. And it's a great way for self awareness to know if you don't, you know, the archetypes, or patterns that everybody has, like, the hero is one that that's in all the movies, and everybody kind of wants to be the hero. And it's one of my archetypes is the knight in shining armor. If if I had a choice, I would have done all the chapters through that one. So I, why I decided to do this. And it's interesting, I've done the practice before, but just through through doing these different archetypes. Going through this practice, it's like doing it all over again, it's another practice but the worldview we look at through the cloud, and your worldview is basically a container for what's possible. And then we talked about integral mission and vision is about deciding what do you want to do with your life? What's willing, you know, what do you want to really pursue. And the interesting thing about that one is the Don Juan archetype, which is the, you know, seductive, and going after what you want. And really, you know, so we've talked about being genuine about pursuing things that you are really interested in, because the shadow archetype of the Don Juan, is, you know, just falling in love with the idea of pursuing things which, you know, it's great to pursue your goals and everything, but if you're, if you're just in it for the chase, the love of the chase, it's, it can be a shadow, part of that archetype. And then integral speech is really your speech to find who you are, and, and making thinking about how you speak to yourself being the first priority. And we looked at that through the messenger archetype, which is another interesting combination, because I didn't match the archetypes It was totally random how I did it. The messenger is your speech, what you say is really who you are. And especially if you say, you know if you if you do what you say you're going to do that that's really who you are. And, and then which went right into action because action, speak louder than words. So the fourth one we did was out actually through the lens of the prostitute, and I could have had a lot more fun with that one. We did. It is it's the, it's the metaphorical, you know, we talked a little bit about. And that really leads into the economic thing too, because we talked about the choices you make is, is you're usually, if you choose to do something, you're choosing not to do something else. And the prostitute archetype is one that can tell you, you know, if you're, if you're selling out, or you're doing things, making concessions, I brought up bad relationship, you're staying in bad relationships. And it's interesting, we did that. And I had the few supplier relationships. And I was thinking, man, you know, the thing is, it's the integral speeds, if you're, you know, talk the talk, you got to walk the walk. So this podcast has been a great review for me, because I looked at, you know, it's like, am I going to roll up my sleeve with these relationships? Or am I going to cut the cord, because you can't get comfortable with certain natural suppliers. And even though things aren't going well, and so really, all of those things, and the reason, you know, with my values, I call it any ecology of values. And the reason I do that is because it's not just, it's not just a laundry list. Same thing with the archetypes. It's not just the list that's kind of cobbled together, they all interact with each other. It's more of everything's connected to everything. So you know, your worldview is really directly connected to economics, you know, and then all the way up that chain from, from worldview, to to your vision of what's possible, the things you say are possible, and then saying what you do that all really creates a foundation for what we're talking about in the fun one about this is it's the child archetype. Which, it's one way it's like the prostitute is one for that everybody has a child prostitute, the saboteur and the victim. And they're just common archetypes, because everybody was a kid at one time. And it makes me laugh, because I still one of the, there's multiple child archetypes, there's the eternal child, which is like the Peter Pan, there's a like, orphaned child was his Oliver Twist, Wounded Child, the magical child. And so you have to pick which one and for me it's, it's probably the either the orphan child is funny because I wasn't an orphan. But I've had a lot of step moms and stepdad had a lot of relationships. Over the years where I had paternal relationships with other people, and even for mentors, I've had a lot of mentors in that have been really influential to me. And it was like a father, son, or even like an uncle, but still, you know, it's a child relationship were people who were older than me, they had been there, done that, and really took me under their wing. So I love the child archetype. Because it did, you know, was one of the things that allowed me to start a company which is, you know, money is an all economics isn't all about the money. I mean, it's the health it's, it's what you want to do to contribute to the community, it's having the time that you want to spend to do the things you love, spend time with the people you want to spend time with, so but those mentors have taught me all those things, it was from like, you know, for me being like learning and the child with with the child archetype comes that curiosity, and wanting to learn new things. And then kind of back to the world, you know, the child worldview is wide open. And, and so that's one of the things I think for, for creating economics to look at it through the lens of the child is, this can be a lot of fun.

Dr. Jeremy Weisz 8:45

You mentioned mentors. And one thing I learned from you is to it's always good to have lots of mentors in your life, who are some of your mentors throughout the years.

Mark Hiddleson 8:58

So I just I mentioned the interview with the with with Sal Fateen. And one of his best friends was Ron Mike is and then he passed away probably about 10 years ago. And he introduced me to Sal, they were best best friends. And he's really kind of a gruff guy, you know, talk about and I was kind of an orphan, you know, and Ron, we would pick up orphaned so that was an orphan child because there were a lot of other guys besides me that that I'm friends with. Carlos Vega. He started as a company like mine in in Southern California, they specialize more in conveyors and stuff like that. Edie Apodaca is another. We're all kind of nephews, we call him uncle Ronnie of Ron. And so I interviewed Sal and I had a chance to ask him some questions. But I said, How did you guys get to become such great friends? And he said, Well, we work together back in the early 80s. And you this'll be a contest to see who would be there first in the morning to make coffee. And it gives me chills because, you know, I've had mentors telling me, you know, several different ways, but it's basically like the difference between the leaders, you know, the people, the superstars, and the ones who are just average, it's like, it's an extra half hour a day. And so those guys, it's stuff like that, where they got to really sit back then. And I love it about this, because back then we used to smoke cigarettes, I guess it was the 80s. So there, I just saw this visual of Ron and style, and they're, they're drinking coffee and smoking cigarettes. And they wanted to be there, right? I mean, they're not like, trudging into work. They're there, because they knew they would create solutions together. They wanted to be creative. And it was funny, he said, the owner, the owner of the company always wanted to be first. But he can rarely be those two, because they were always there first. And then both those guys, you know, within three to five years of that job, ended up starting their own companies and thriving, but was to two great mentors. And that was a great story that the Sal shared with me, and I'm really grateful for that, because I haven't been the first guy, I'm not the first guy to the coffee. But I do I show up, you know, I show people know me, because you know, I'm there to pronounce the name tags, I'm there to greet people door, I'm there to take role or whatever. You know, but just playing that extra role to the server community.

Dr. Jeremy Weisz 11:34

You know, one of the things you think about I know are, you know, how is it important to set high end limits? Like when's Enough? And how to think about.

Mark Hiddleson 11:48

Yeah, that's a great. It's a great point. And I've heard this, another, you know, there's a lot of different ways, but the, the same that money doesn't buy happiness is a tough one. Because people say, Well, you know, look, it's easy for you to say, you know, if you have a certain amount of money, and, you know, most people will tell you, if they were unhappy when they when they didn't have money, when they got money, they were still unhappy, you know what I mean? And it was something else. And there is it's human nature just to want more. And it's just that the feeling you have right now, is this going to be the same, it's just going to be, you'd be, it'd be happy about different stuff, or it'd be complaining about different stuff. But But setting a high end limit, it really sets you free. And, you know, because for me, I mean, I'll just I'll give an example, myself as an example, I really, I wanted to make a lot of money, but it wasn't, you know, I wanted a nice car wanted to have nice clothes, I wanted to be able to go to a restaurant with my family, and I could pick up the check, I wanted to actually, my wife wanted to pay for private education for my kids. And I've always thought education was a priority. And it wasn't really, my mom was a public school teacher has always stood up for it. But I thought, man, if you're going to invest your money somewhere invested in your kids education. So I want to be able to pay for their school, have a nice house. So, you know, for me, I looked at it how much and then there's formulas you can use to to go and also I want to retire in my 50s. And the thing is funny now that I'm in my 50s I'm having so much fun. There's no way I'm gonna retire. But, you know, 30 years, that's the other thing about looking at these goals, what you know, what you think you can accomplish in a couple years on the high end, when you look at compound interest and saving and investing, you know, over a 20 or 30 year period, if you start when you're young This is another good way to bring in the child archetype is start thinking about this in your child. So I set an upper limit I know you know based on you can go to your financial consultant can tell you but you know, well mindset is for every million dollars you can expect to live on like five to 8% so that you have so he can look at you know how much money that you need and take five to 8% I always use the 8% number because I'm a higher risk guy but But setting that limit it kind of sets you free because you know then it doesn't come become about you know having to make a certain amount of money or one upping. You know, when I got my car I might have a really nice sports car, but it's almost 10 years old now. And really every year that a new one. I mean the new is a Corvette is it 2014 that came out was the first one And when the new one came out, it's like I want the new, the new one. And I don't want to get rid of the old one, I love the old one. So for me kind of setting that upper upper limit, ah, if there's just a lot of freedom in that, because a lot of it is, you know, you let the kind of let it take care of itself. And then I can just focus on, you know, making the contribution that I want to make, solving the kind of problems that I want to solve for my customers. And, you know, creating the legacy of service, inspiration, contribution to, to community.

Dr. Jeremy Weisz 15:46

You mentioned, you know, freedom, a couple of times freedom to make certain choices. And I know that you do speak about I mean, this is what you do for a living for businesses, right, you create systems and structure for businesses, which helps them accelerate. So I'd love for you to talk about how you think about systems and structure.

Mark Hiddleson 16:15

Yeah, so systems is, is actually a new worldview, it's kind of beyond like, if you're looking to scientific paradigms, the system's worldviews kind of everything's connected to everything. And then I've taken it, you know, there's other people who've taken any further but if you always look at everything is like an ecosystem, because everything does basically follow the pattern of nature. And I have created, it's funny, some of them is to go off and, and but I've created a lot of systems, you know, just the way I keep my calendar, the way I stay in touch with people, the way I follow up, and I have systems, it's I've had, I've had business partners telling me I have systems where I don't need systems.

Dr. Jeremy Weisz 17:01

It's the best nature.

Mark Hiddleson 17:04

But you have to have a system in, you know, there's his ways of following up ways of catching thing, and I tried to model it, you know, after after nature, and you know, it involves spending time in nature, some of its its contemplation, but, you know, if you think of the way a business works, or even the way human work, it's a lot more like a tree than it is like a computer or machine or a car, you know, and there's there's values the living system, when you create something with the principles of living systems, you know, Lizzie's living systems, if if your car breaks down, that mechanic has to fix it, if the living system breaks down, it sort of repairs itself, you know, finds ways to repair itself, that and then all of those connections are through relationships with other people. So you know, I look at my network as is kind of an ecosystem and, you know, the value of those connections is are based on you know, what you put in the effort that you put into developing relationships, I mean, the seed, the seed metaphor, you know, of, like, we look at, I'm sorry, I have some beautiful trees in our backyard. And I love Sequoia is one of my favorite trees. And if you look at, we've got some 5060 footers back here, but I was in Pine Crest a few weeks ago, and there's 300 foot tall trees, and it's like, man, that things started from a pine calm, you know, so the principles of nature, and just the way that things are connected. And to me, a business and your life, I mean, the Eco eco system, it really is a living system. So when you're designing the systems, you know, I like to keep in mind, like an ecological model.

Dr. Jeremy Weisz 18:51

So when you think of integral economics and the child archetype, how do you relate that and use that in business?

Mark Hiddleson 19:05

So in so in relationships, you know, self self awareness is, you know, one of the most important things that you can have, because you're being honest about what you're bringing to a relationship. And for me, business is always about relationships. And I think the one of the most important things about economics, I think that that isn't being taught at school, you know, everybody, my age, and it's kind of starting to change, but people have been complaining about it for you know, at least 20 or 30 years, I know but the education we got said, Hey, go to school, get a good job, work till you're 65 and you know, retire by the time you're old enough not to enjoy any of this stuff you want to do, and you probably won't have enough money. And in even that has kind of failed for a lot of people, you know, I mean, they're going to school, and then they're not getting that good job at all. Uh, what was it there was a company that my dad was talking was a helicopter defense contractor that made their super Honeywell Honeywell. He almost went to work for Honeywell when he graduated and those jobs, you know, and then even if you do you know, to me the way to create financial freedom was really through through owning your own company. And there was something I learned at a very young age, I was actually starting a business and I was a child, that sort of thing to the for the first time ever started a business, I was 18, you're still a child, when you're 18. And it was a multilevel marketing business. And they taught not to trade your time for money. But as a concept that was the first time I really haven't hadn't heard it was a, there was a video cassette called the law of time and money by Jake cuccia and back, back then. So I was 18 I was working for a construction company. And I was always I was 18. But I'm trying to look 30 I want to look like Michael J. Fox always had a tie. You know, best clothes, wool slacks, you know, like my cousin told me like certain people wear a cotton polyester blend with a really successful guys. 100% wool pass. This guy asked me said hey, do you listen to business tapes? And I was thinking myself like, What the fuck is a business? I was like, yeah, yeah, of course I do. So the guy he owned like a landscape company. And he was one of our vendors. And he was kind of a cool guy and gregarious guy. And I was like, Well, yeah, I listened to business days. So he gave me this business statement. I listened to it. And it made a lot of sense, you know about creating value through a network and having, you know, access to 60,000 products and services, and you're using these and so there was just a lot of things about these to draw circles. And it was like, you know, McDonald's Ray Kroc didn't invent the hamburger, he invented the franchise, right? Which is kind of whole idea of duplication. And, and so that training, there's plenty of that training. I didn't and I thought immediately I got into Amway, Amelie sponsor, like five people rob the bow, but I'll be like a diamond direct distributor by the time I was 21. So I had it. But that that pattern in the things I mean, I'd like to say more about about the law of time and money. I took a weekend course with you about that, then I we talked about I'm not sure I'm done. Yeah. Yeah. Now trading time for money. And, and there's just some principles that was like, Well, how do you how do you do that? In a way, as I've done it, you know, in our business, there's so many different products we can represent. And every time I got a new job, I got specialized knowledge about that application. And I found like the go to person about it, because, you know, I wanted to get the order. I wanted to be the best for my client. So I would make I mean, that's again, doing a few extra things. I mean, that's what Sal and Ron were talking about, about coffee, right? They weren't talking about politics, or, you know, what it? Well, they might have been talking about what they did on Friday night, because those guys do like to party. But I'll bet you he, they were finding out creative ways to solve problems. And so I just always look for, you know, who are the people who can teach me this, I want to be a sponge, I want to find, you know, the gifted professionals, every industry has, you know, people who do it for a living. And then there's the there's the gifted professionals. So my goal, whether it was going to industry conferences, or like I said, if I had a project if I didn't know and I had clients tell me that they they gave me an order. And they said it's not because he knew more than the other guy, I could just tell you cared. And you were asking all these things, you didn't have all the answers, but you were always willing to do the homework.

So that's, that's one way. You know, if you if you're always better, if you're always learning a new skill, you're making a contribution, you're able to solve problems, you know, quicker, not just that you're developing these relationships that even if you can't solve the problems, you've built a network around you who can help you solve those problems. I got to stop and that there's there's three more things I want to say about the law of time and money. So if I mess it up, but I have to because your introduction, it reminded me that this happened to me. He said Mark could get it done. And he you no matter where it is, and I was like Oh yeah, that that seems like a good one. But we had a situation this week, where it was actually last week. I moved the customer from San Diego to South Carolina, Charleston, South Carolina, and we put their system in San Diego. And they weren't really a warehouse. It was kind of near scene has happened quite a bit where a company, they weren't really a warehouse. But now just the way business is changing. And there's so much direct to consumer where people have to adjust. So people who were used to, you know, working like a retail environment, or you know, they ordered in dropship, or they're doing a lot more direct orders. So we built this little system. And we said, we're going to tear it down, we'll be we want to ship it by Wednesday, and then we'll install it next week. Well, we got there, and they didn't have their stuff off the shelves. And she said, Well, you're gonna finish Wednesday, and we're gonna finish Wednesday, but we're gonna tear the whole thing down today. We'll pack it up on Tuesday, and then I have Wednesday as a buffer day for loading trucks. So, you know, first of all, is clearing up those communication issues when that happens a lot in our business. But shipping stuff to the West Coast usually takes about a week. And now the supply chain, you know, no one's guaranteeing anything within like 10 days. All this stuff showed up in like two days. And the person I had on the other end, I said, Hey, okay, you know, the stuff showed up yesterday, and this was Friday, and you went, can you install it next week. And he wastes the late Friday and says, Oh, man, I'm sorry, we had something happened with our schedule, I'm not going to be able to do that job next week. So now it's Friday, late, I've committed to a job on the East Coast is already six or seven o'clock on the east coast by now. But I remember seeing an email or when a friend of mine opened a division in North Carolina. So I'm like, okay, dialing for dollars, it'll soon start calling. So I called five or six people. And it didn't seem like anything was gonna happen until Thursday morning. Somebody came through, I had a bunch of people come through that could have done this. But somebody came through and they could do the job Friday afternoon. So all that time I was working my customer making sure that the area free and clear, we got the drawings over to him got all the questions answered ahead of time. So that when we did find that emergency crew, they set it up and our customer was able to rock and roll. And there's another there's another funny note about that story. We quoted this customer. A big racking job. This was just a small, little retail thing. And nobody really wants to mess around with the quote, I did it because it's a client of the client of a cleanser referral of like one of my top top, like, I will do any that go sweep the floor if they asked me to do and I said when we couldn't find anybody. I said, Hey, will you guys didn't use us for the big racking job that he did in South Carolina? Because he wanted local support? I go can Is there any way they can do it? And I'm like, well, they're not really returning our phone calls or these guys, just so they did a huge job. And you know, I've got the small job and like to me any job, I took the job, I'm gonna do the job. It's I'm not saying but you know, relatives probably that job is probably 10 times more than mine. And these guys aren't returning phone calls. And I'm calling in favors from the Raymond dealer Brian Re. I'm calling Brian Reeves. He sells forklifts for Toyota in Tampa. And by the way, won't have Brian on the podcast because he came up with two guys. So now this is a commercial

Dr. Jeremy Weisz 28:06

Yeah, for another big job where they're gonna go through.

Mark Hiddleson 28:10

And I have I have, I have more contacts now for installs in South Carolina than I do in California. So, so that's just an example of I didn't do that. Like that's, that's my network. My Network did that. And I couldn't that's just it's not me. So that's the ecosystem. That's that's the network. And it's it's all the other ones. Brian used to own the company in Chicago. And I got to lead out here because somebody said, they sold the racks to apex. I'm like, Oh, my buddy just sold the company called apex. I think, I know. So I called him and he goes, Well, I can't do any guarantees, but he got me in touch with the new owners and now we ended up doing that project for them. So, you know, networking, I love when people say some people will say networking doesn't doesn't work. I always, always laugh because I always always wonder, all know what you're talking about? It kind of reminds me, you took Utah to class one time of the pushing. If you want to create an avalanche or this giant snowball, you start with the work of pushing this small snowball all the way up this hill. And that's where all the work is. And you still get to the top of the hill and you just have like weed or whatever you can carry, right? There's this 30 pound snowball. But when you're up at the top and then you can roll it down. That's when it starts creating momentum. So you know those relationships that we're solving problems this week. They're built over 1520 years of, you know, returning phone calls, helping them out, you know doing homework For them, helping them, you know, same situation, you know, obviously, you know, we would we would do the same thing. And there's so I goes right back into the other thing about, about the law of time, money, that it's the it's looking at Synergy versus a zero sum game. You know, and there's in life, synergy, it's not easy because people don't communicate well. I mean, that's another reason I like the archetypes because it brings up like, I know, I bring a certain self to do everything. I try not to let it get in the way. But it does. It does does. But, you know, listening, because there's always, you know, Brian solved that problem for me, on a scale of one to 10. For him. It was a it was a two or three. And it's even actually, it's helping him out because now he's reaching out to his network. I mean, I look at it the same way, if somebody asked me for a favor. Now I call through those three people that I know, I'm also reconnecting. And effort wise, it's a two or a three to me. But the wind for me was a 10. So he does a two. So that's all synergy. I mean, it's a number and then a system when you get that going in a system and everybody you know, it's an abundance, mentality versus scarcity mentality, he could solve more problems more creatively with more minds.

Dr. Jeremy Weisz 31:33

Yeah, I mean, if this is building up, you know, people don't see the goodwill. And stuff you did over 20 years, they just see, Mark was able to make a call and make this happen. And wasn't image the same thing. If you compare to sports. You see Michael Jordan in the playoffs, do a turnaround jumper, you don't see him practicing, you know, 10 hours a day waking up at five in the morning, you don't see all that stuff that went into that one result. Right.

Mark Hiddleson 32:02

So Exactly, exactly. You do.

Dr. Jeremy Weisz 32:04

Think about it. There's another topic that you you talk about is mixing business with pleasure.

Mark Hiddleson 32:16

Yeah, that's my favorite. That's my favorite. That's, that's what we're doing right now. Right? Because I love to have these conversations I love visiting with you getting your input. There's one more thing I want to say before I go to business or pleasure because I think it fits in the in the time and money. I mean, they all fit in the not trading time for money. But one of the I'm not a financial guru or anything like that. But I've taken a lot of classes and one of the things they say that if you want financial freedom to start, you know, start while your young child archetype as young as you can, and the concept of pay yourself first is so huge. That over time, you know, compound interest, Albert Einstein said compound interest is the most powerful force in the universe. Right? And so, you invested forget, I got into a phase where I had a boss and we were doing Investor's Business Daily. And I was learning how to invest in stocks and I was spending all this time I was like man all this time I spending Sasa spend this much time learning about conveyors, dock equipment, dock bores, calling it calling other people aid makes so much more money. So it's, I read two books on it, and I kind of just, you know, invest but but the concept of just having to disappear before you even see the money is is going to, you know, that's the same thing of pushing the snowball up the hill, it's just the same concept of developing the relationships. And but but but mixing business with that, and that's no fun. That's why I wanted to get that out of the way. It actually is fun in 20 years, when you look back, and you've been doing that for 20 years, because I don't look at it all the time. And because I'm busy running my business, like I know how to make a certain amount. That stuff just goes in there. And when we look at it once a year, but we don't really look that closely, but over 20 years, it's just like, wow, you know, it is kind of fun. But but but mixing business with pleasure, the way I've done it is, is serving a community and and I was involved in the warehousing Education and Research Council. Early early in my career. I was a president when I was like 30. And you know, it's President it's real prestigious job, right. What it means is, we set up tours and we did for a year everybody kind of took but somebody had to set up the reservations from the restaurant, somebody had to do the pre tour and go and meet with the guests and decide how the logistics were grown. Somebody had to print out the name tag somebody and when you have I've noticed when you get in groups like that, which is a few people and they're doing all the work and that's that's what you get the title of president but the truth is It's like, you better have fun printing out name tags, you better and actually coming out of one you hosted an event. And then 30 days later I host an event. It's it's a lot of freaking work and you need volunteers. And so that warehouse education research group that I was with the Northern California Council, it was six people they all wanted to serve. They're all rolling up their sleeves, if you ask for something, and you know, and it was funny, my first The first year I was president, I was like, 3130, I was young. And the first thing I had to do as President, I had to ask somebody who was on the board, they had been on the board for two years had never hosted an event and never printed out one they were never signed, went early to do sign ups or anything. And one of my great mentors, Ray Wilkinson say you gotta call this guy and tell them, he's not on the board. This isn't mixing business with pleasure.

So that was one of those childs where I had a father figure telling me how to do something, you know, and then it wasn't easy. But we had the conversation. And it's funny, didn't even I didn't even think I was doing I mean, I was doing it. Because I wanted to it's a living you really, I wanted to serve that community. Because I saw what it was doing for customers. I had customers go on tours. And you're hosting what we used to find the people that really set like a lot of the jobs we do, it's just, you know, 20 sections, a rack in a freezer. I mean, it's pretty awesome. You never seen it before. But you know, sometimes there's like three story conveyors and automatically sorted, you know, not and everything comes back. And it's barcodes and RFID. So we try to find those racks supported buildings that there's no people or forklift or anything and just automatic, everything happens. And it just shoots the pilot out like a Pez machine. We've got some really great tours, and you know, and for me, you make an infection, a few extra phone calls to set up a restaurant at dinner, and then you know, and just split, like I said, we split up the work. And that's what made it awesome. You know, so I think if anybody is really like that, that really skyrocketed my career. Because those guys they knew, you know, they know they could count on you to do the name tags, they know they could count on you to do their project. You know, it's it's kind of a it's an action. And those those relationships I had Michael Mikitka who's the President of the National Warehousing Education and Research Council, and all those people that we would meet, then when he would go to the National Conference, they wouldn't just be the California Board, it will be all the boards. So so that effort, you know, you're not trading your time for money, really, you're working for free. Like they weren't paying me to do the name tags. But in the long run, it's it's priceless. And then then it's friendships. You know, because we spilled spaghetti on those name tags. We and I just always look for other MHI does ProMat in Chicago, I met with you one time you join me for a dinner I hosted some of my clients and suppliers were what was that place called Gordon's or Gilbert's?

Dr. Jeremy Weisz 38:13

Oh, I know what you're talking about. Yes. I can't think of the name right now. It was on Rush Street. And it was a steakhouse. The bigger Gibson Gibson steakhouse gives.

Mark Hiddleson 38:23

Yeah, yeah. Gibson. So So that's mixing business with pleasure. I mean, that was the CFO of Michelle powers. He's the CFOs. Here Pacific ag Melendez. Matt Burke. I was talking to Matt today. He's, uh, he's scheduled to go on the podcast. You know, all these guys have started companies own companies, the CFO of multiple companies. And we were there to learn, you know, we toured ProMat, the largest material handling show in the world, probably some of the exhibits are over a million dollars to put together of these conveyor systems. So it's fun, you go there, but you're learning and making new contacts. I mean, this podcast wouldn't happen if you didn't go to that dinner at Gibson. That's about five years ago, I think wasn't it?

Dr. Jeremy Weisz 39:16

I mean, in COVID years it's like 12 years. Yeah, it seems like forever ago.

Mark Hiddleson 39:21

Yeah. So I've been invited to speak at some conferences and you know, that's another way that I have I'm making the contribution because everybody if you're going to put on one of these things, and they need five or six speakers over three days or 10 speakers in and I have you know, I have a slide deck in a in a tie I never wear actually don't wear a tie and we're luckily these popular shirts came out the disarm button the little with the with the sleeves, but I have a sport coat and and I love it, you know, you go and do a 20 minute presentation on something that they want, you know I've done them on innovation, I've done it on rack safety and maintenance, a lot of different thing and it's fun, you know, it's a little bit of pressure. And the funny thing is, you know, if you speak you're kind of putting yourself on the line. So you open yourself up to a little bit of abuse from the crowd. So you always get to connect with people that that heard. And you know, most people are really flattering about it and stuff, but a bit of you know, people there, they'll be sure to come and find you until you were you made a mistake. Then you get to say I.

Dr. Jeremy Weisz 40:35

Mark, one last thing I want to talk about is and thanks for going through that the business and pleasure and also the the you know, talking about the law of time and money. But I wanted to just talk about you have a mission, one of your missions is to kind of around rituals and creating rituals. So I want you to just talk about that.

Mark Hiddleson 41:02

Yeah, so. So I think ritual is important. I have a morning ritual, and I've had it for, you know, probably 20 years. So I've added on to it. And it's some of the things I've shared with coaching clients or other business clients, I don't talk about it a lot, because it's personal, but I appreciate you asking me about it because it is really vital to what really kind of goes back to with economics, it can be really stressful. I mean, I'm talking about setting the high end limit and not trading your time for money. And you know, some of that stuff like cold calling or introducing yourself to people or giving speeches for that matter. I mean, that that's the kind of stuff that it wigs most people out you know, and it it's kind of I don't know which archetype it is with me that level I love that thrill. You know, I want to put myself out there. And I'm also you know, with the ritual is about creating the space for myself to take care of myself first. And that's why I do it in the morning. It's like pay yourself first and usually start with gratitude. You know, we usually wake up and I always think about how much sleep I've added sleeps I've added sleep so first thing I wake up I think about my dreams because that's another thing I just they save you think about your dreams. It's funny, I had some some wacky dreams yesterday, I was at a cloak cold storage, cold storage plant on the roof. And I'm like, What am I doing up here. But uh, but I have some, some meditation rituals. But I but I do it in the morning. And it's mainly about gratitude and just thinking about the simple things that I'm thankful for. And, and also, you know, by the time I get to my office, I write a few things down and just simple stuff, you know, my pencils, my books, my computer, but I've got a meditation practice that is I call it basic practice. And then sometimes if I'm in a really intense like I'm in, I'm in right now I'm in a 90 day kind of intensive, I add to the ritual, a Kata, which is it's a martial arts kata. And that's what I mean by and I've got a few other people who do it and I'll say, Hey, I'm doing the kata this week, or this 90 days or whatever. And it's just a series of pretty simple, it's mostly Chi Gong, it's kind of a mixture of Chi Gong, Aikido, and yoga. But it's basically you know, just getting centered. And, and being authentic, you know, in finding out what, because there's always something going on like this. The thing about being human, there's something going on in your mind, if you slow down, there'll be some recurring things that keep coming up. And for me that morning ritual is I can take the things that are kind of nipping at my heels. My boss used to call the alligators biting my ankles, and just slow down. And I'm not talking like I'm not, you know, chanting mantras, and dancing, right is it is pretty goofy, and my kids will make fun of me for doing it. I'll do it all recorded and posted on one of the podcasts. I'll have me doing the integral transformative practice kata, but it's just a great way for for centering, grounding. And like I said, all this stuff, economics can be stressful. So I've always started with prevention, right? And making sure that I'm running my business and my business isn't running me. And the other thing that helps me do is that and I should have said this in the beginning, this this is kind of in the beginning, but you know, I have three priorities before finances and, and it's related, but, you know, my spiritual growth, my health and my family all come before my business, you know, so, if if there's an opportunity for me to serve somebody who needs me, and you know, on a family The level or spiritual level or like, I'm going to be there, and my work is going to kind of suffer. I mean, luckily, that's the that's the exception, and not the rule. But the morning practice really helps me keep that priority because it's easy to get twisted, you know, I mean, it's stressful. Trying to make money trying to get all your bases covered. So that's what the ritual is about. It's about starting with balance, and then it's not balanced every day. It's like balance over 90 days.

Dr. Jeremy Weisz 45:31

Mark, no, I appreciate that. I appreciate you sharing all the stories and wisdom. I want to encourage people to check out more episodes of the podcast and also just check out the website. Special And, as always, I appreciate you having me.

Mark Hiddleson 45:48

Yeah, thanks, Jeremy. This has been dynamite. I really appreciate it. Well, I'm having you.

Outro 45:53

Thanks for listening to The Tao of Pizza Podcast. We'll see you again next time. And be sure to click Subscribe to get future episodes.

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