The Hidden Cost of Poor 3PL Matching for Growing eCommerce Brands With Matt Hertz
- Rise25 webmaster@rise25media.com
- 2 days ago
- 36 min read
Matt Hertz is the Founder and CEO of Third Person, a digital marketplace that uses AI to help e-commerce brands connect with third-party logistics (3PL) partners. He is also the Founder of Second Marathon, a consulting company that has helped brands like Walmart, PacSun, and Milk Bar optimize their supply chains. As a seasoned e-commerce and supply chain professional, Matt has over 15 years of experience leading operations at companies, including Rent the Runway and Birchbox.
Here's a glimpse of what you’ll learn:
[4:31] How Third Person helps brands find 3PL partners
[8:00] The lessons Matt Hertz learned from introducing subscription tiers for 3PL companies
[10:29] Matt’s background as an operations leader and why he transitioned to supply chain consulting
[13:01] Common mistakes 3PL companies make when defining their ideal customer profile
[19:49] The vision behind Third Person’s curated logistics retreats
[26:35] An overview of brand sponsorships at Third Person’s logistics retreats
[30:02] The importance of specialization and niche focus among 3PL companies
[32:52] Leveraging AI for 3PL optimization
[42:43] Advice for 3PL companies considering Third Person’s platform
In this episode…
Finding the right fulfillment partner can make or break an e-commerce business, yet the logistics industry is crowded, complex, and often opaque. Brands and 3PL companies often struggle with mismatched expectations, inefficient processes, and missed opportunities for alignment. How can these companies cut through the noise and build mutually beneficial partnerships?
According to supply chain consultant Matt Hertz, fruitful partnerships begin with clarity; brands and logistics providers must define their needs and strengths before becoming partners. He encourages 3PL companies to say no to poor-fit clients, focus on a clear niche, and build operational discipline, while brands should prioritize fit over reputation or scale. This helps reduce friction and create long-term, scalable relationships.
In this episode of The Tao of Pizza Podcast, Mark Hiddleson and Dr. Jeremy Weisz chat with Matt Hertz, Founder and CEO of Third Person, about improving fulfillment partnerships in a fragmented logistics market. Matt shares how AI-driven matchmaking works, why 3PLs must define a clear ideal customer profile, and how curated, small-scale events outperform large trade shows.
Resources mentioned in this episode:
Specialized Storage Solutions, Inc. contact phone: 707-732-3892
Mark Hiddleson's email: markhiddleson@aol.com
“Maximizing Third-Party Warehousing With Matt Burke” on The Tao of Pizza Podcast
“Building Smarter Warehouses Through People, Technology, and Purpose With Jeremy Van Puffelen” on The Tao of Pizza Podcast
“Creating a Culture of Sustainable Success: Partnership & Community Service With Chris Murphy” on The Tao of Pizza Podcast
Quotable Moments:
“It’s sort of like a dating app, you know, helping brands find fulfillment partners.”
“I don’t believe that there’s that many bad 3PLs. I think there’s bad matches…”
“The best 3PLs are really dialed in and know exactly who they serve best.”
“I wanted to start my own business…is sort of the candid truth.”
“We want to keep it really flexible and put the onus on Third Person to provide value.”
Action Steps:
Define your ideal partner profile clearly: Be specific about operational strengths, volume thresholds, and constraints to prevent costly mismatches and long-term friction. Clear criteria allow both sides to engage only where success is realistic and scalable.
Say no to poor-fit opportunities early: Turning down misaligned clients or partners protects service quality and operational focus. This discipline leads to stronger performance, better margins, and healthier relationships over time.
Specialize instead of trying to serve everyone: Focusing on a niche enables deeper expertise, better systems, and more consistent outcomes. Specialization also makes your value proposition easier to communicate and easier for partners to trust.
Use data to guide partnership decisions: Leveraging structured information and performance insights removes guesswork from the selection process. Data-driven decisions improve efficiency, alignment, and long-term results.
Invest in relationship-driven networking: Smaller, curated interactions foster trust and more honest conversations than large, transactional events. These settings lead to higher-quality connections and more meaningful collaboration.
Sponsor for this episode:
This episode is brought to you by Specialized Storage Solutions Inc.
Listen...
I have been in the logistics and storage industry for several decades. I know I don’t look that old, but it's true.
We provide industry-leading warehouse storage solutions nationwide.
So basically, if you have a warehouse that needs Rack, Shelving, Carts, Conveyors, or Mezzanines, we help with....design engineering, installations, inspections, and repairs to help clients optimize their logistics operations.
Sometimes people don’t even realize that we can actually help with permit acquisition services.
We take a holistic look at your entire business supply chain ecosystem to develop the resources for continually improving your operation.
To learn more, visit specialracks.com or give us a call at (707) 732-3892. One of the best ways to learn more about our products and services is to follow us on Instagram. And there’s a link on our website to do that.
I will even give you my personal email address for podcast listeners, so email me at markhiddleson@aol.com if you’re ready to take your warehouse storage and retrieval systems to the next level.
Episode Transcript:
Intro 0:01
Welcome to The Tao of Pizza, where we feature top logistics leaders, entrepreneurs and supply chain innovators and share their inspiring stories with a holistic twist.
Jeremy Weisz 0:14
Dr. Jeremy Weisz here, founder of inspiredinsider.com, where I talk with inspirational entrepreneurs and leaders. I'm here with my co-host today. Mark Hiddleson, founder of Special Racks. Mark, tell people about your podcast.
Mark Hiddleson 0:28
I’m the host of The Tao of Pizza Podcast, where I talk with top industry innovators in the warehousing, logistics and supply chain business with the holistic twist.
Jeremy Weisz 0:37
And you know, we're here with Matt Hertz, the founder of Third Person. You can check them out Third Person com, before we formally introduce you, Matt, we like to point out some other episodes of the podcasts. People should check out a couple in this realm. I don't know. I guess I lump it into e-commerce. I had one of the co-founders of RXBAR on the podcast. That was an interesting episode. I'm gonna go the protein bar route, because I like protein bars. I had the founder of IQ bar, which was also interesting episode, and the founder of one of the co-founders of Quest Nutrition, which was interesting. Tom Bilyeu, So Mark, what are some of the fan favorites over on your podcast?
Mark Hiddleson 1:19
I have a lot in this space, and I love to connect with people in fulfillment. But the ones that come that are top of mind to me is Matt Burke. He's worked on some really high profile projects like butcher box. Chris Murphy, long time friend of mine, in three PL business. And then recently, I interviewed Jeremy van Puffelen of Prism, and they've done some automation that was interesting. So those are some great episodes to check out. Awesome.
Jeremy Weisz 1:44
Yeah, check that out. And these app This episode is brought to you by Rise25 and Special Racks. I'm gonna just say Mark is a humble guy, and he's also one of the nicest people on the planet. Mark has been serving the warehousing logistics industry since 1996 I know you've aged Well, Mark, but they specialize in facility design, racking, shelving, conveyor systems, all the stuff that makes these three pls work. Actually, they've helped companies like Costco, Home Depot and just lots of warehouses, manufacturers and three pls. So I'm glad to get you and Matt connected, because there's a lot of stuff that you could do together. You can do together. You can check it out specialracks.com and Rise25. Rise25, we help businesses connect to their dream relationships and partnerships. We do that. Number one, we're an easy button for a company to launch and run a podcast. We do the strategy, accountability and the full execution, production and number two, we're an easy button for a company's gifting. We make gifting and staying top of mind for clients, partners, prospects, even staff, from a culture perspective, simple and easy and affordable. You just give us a list of addresses. We do everything else, and it's not like a one off gift. We like to send a campaign of gifts, and Mark knows this for any of our clients, partners, we like to send three or four gifts a year for three or four years. Okay? So the number one thing you know, Matt, in my life is relationships. I'm always looking at ways to give to my relationships, and I found no better way, over the past decade, to profile the people and companies I admire and share with the world what they're working on the podcast and send them sweet treats in the mail, so you can check out Rise25.com. I am excited to introduce Matt Hertz. He has 15 years experience leading e commerce operations as an early employee and first operations hire at Rent the Runway, Birch Box ship and so many more. In 2017 he found his second marathon, which is a supply chain consultancy. They've helped e commerce brands like hex clad away, thuma, BarkBox, birdies and milk and bar Milk Bar optimize their supply chains. And he launched Third Person, which is a digital marketplace and enables e commerce brands to discover and connect with three pls. Matt, thanks for joining us.
Matt Hertz 4:00
Thanks for having me. Jeremy, I've done a number of webinars and podcasts over the years, and I think your way of distilling my background into that 15 second sound bite was probably the best I've heard. So no. Thanks for having me and Mark as well. It's great having two co hosts to drill me for the next few minutes here.
Jeremy Weisz 4:19
Yeah, this is gonna be pleasurable, but just start us off with Third Person. And what you do, and I'm going to pull up your website and we'll poke around,
Matt Hertz 4:31
sure, yeah. So as you mentioned quite succinctly, Jeremy, Third Person is effectively a digital marketplace that helps e commerce brands discover and connect with three pls. The way, I kind of explain it to my 75 year old mother who has no logistics background, is it's sort of like a dating app, you know, helping brands find fulfillment partners. So completely free experience for brands to use they sign up, takes a few minutes to share a little bit of information on who they are. As a. Brand and their needs, their profile. And then at the core of our product, we've built this AI powered algorithm that essentially scores marks hot sauce company against each of the hundreds and hundreds of three POs that we have on the platform, each of whom have also shared their ideal client. So they've taken the time to share with us what good looks like for them, and our matching algorithm will then present the top 10 matches ranked by score and enable the brand to connect with any of those directly through the platform. So a really simple tool to help three pls get qualified leads and help brands find qualified partners for their own needs.
Jeremy Weisz 5:37
I was I forgot to give a shout out to Evan rock. That's the reason we met, actually, Evan rock, of quiet logistics, when I was looking for a three PL, he's like, you know, we're not a fit for you. We're not a fit for you, but you need to talk to Matt and I went on the platform. It's super easy to use, and it gives amazing suggestions. So I've personally used it. How does the talk about the evolution the pricing model a little bit? I know it's free for brands to go on and find it. Sure.
Matt Hertz 6:11
Yeah. So we're, you know, we're not a church or a charity here, so we need to make our money somewhere, somehow. When we launched the business back in March of 2024, so I think I failed to mention that. So we're a little over 18 months young here, almost two years when we launched the business, it was completely free for brands, which was something that was really important to me, because, as you mentioned in my intro, I ran a consulting business prior to Third Person. And really Third Person is that sort of digital evolution of the key consulting service that we were offering at second marathon, which was helping brands lead a full service three PL, search or RFP, and in that in that product, you know, in our consulting business, we charge brands a lot of money, I think, a fair amount of money, but a lot of money nonetheless. So we sort of had this aha moment say, hey, let's have a free experience for brands so we can work with many more brands who maybe weren't able to afford our services in our consulting business. So we launched this free this free model for brands. It continues to be free today on the three PL side, and that's how we get paid. Initially, the model was, I'm going to say, initially, up until about six weeks ago, earlier in October, the model was purely a success fee for three PL, so three pls would pay us 2% of total revenue for 24 months. So if you know Evan from quiet logistics, who's a good friend of mine as well, if he wins the business that discovered him through the platform, then quiet would pay Third Person 2% of revenue for the next 24 months. So it kind of builds in a bit of continuity there. What we launched a couple months ago, as you see here on the screen, is that model I just explained is now known as our basic model. So nothing is changing. There no monthly fees. But what we've introduced is three levels of monthly paid tier, so a $99 a month, plan 499, and a 999, with annual breaks. And really the impetus here is that the number one thing that three appeals were asking us after, you know, send us more qualified leads, is, how do we close more of these leads? Right? How do we get better at what we do? And not just leads from your platform, from Third Person, the leads they get through their website or going to trade shows or, you know, different marketing initiatives that they have, you know, social media, etc. So what we're trying to do is create more marketing infrastructure for three, pls. So not only be a really effective lead gen or sales tool for three PLS, but really support the marketing team. So as you can see here, we're starting to roll in more, you know, in analytics and insights and data on what brands are asking for and the three, pls, who are successful, like, what are they doing to be successful? And where we sit in the ecosystem, where we have really strong relationships with brands, as well as three pls and logistics tech companies, we're starting to have more events and opportunities for three pls to kind of get their name out there in a really effective way.
Jeremy Weisz 9:11
This makes sense. I'm sure, you know, I would get in if you're a three PL. This may increase as you get better at this, so people can get in while it's, while it lasts, I guess, sure.
Matt Hertz 9:25
Yeah, you know, we're, you know, as I said, we're about six weeks into this. And, you know, I think, I think giving it 90 days or a quarter or two is probably appropriate to see, you know what the stickiness is, and you know who's, who's kind of opting into which tier. But yeah, we've been, we've been really pleased to see the early traction of three appeals upgrading to one of these three plans.
Mark Hiddleson 9:50
Yeah, I'm eager to jump off the call and text about 10 people so my my top clients are three. Pls. And I mean, this looks awesome. And. Not sure. I mean, I don't think I try to stay on top of where things are going, but the things people complain about, like the RFP process is kind of clunky. If you have your own website near three PL you do end up weeding out a lot of non fit. So I had an earlier question though I wanted to jump in. Would you share a little bit about your transition from from the warehouse side and an operator, sort of like before second. How did you get into consulting? Do you mind going back and sharing a little bit about your background?
Matt Hertz 10:29
Yeah, absolutely. So, yeah, I came from the operating side, you know, the brand side. I was that sort of in house, you know, head of operations, person at a few startups, going back to 2009 when I joined what was a little known company Rent the Runway, a women's stress rental business, which is now a publicly traded company. But I joined them a couple weeks into that business as their fifth employee and first operations hire with with no operations experience, by the way. You know, I don't think I could even have spelled FedEx back then, but I was, I was fairly fungible. And, you know, was able to sort of figure things out initially and then join the team at Birch Box as their first employee and help them get to about a million orders a month in revenue, you know, a couple 100, a couple 100 million dollars, sorry, a million orders a month in orders, and a couple 100 million dollars a year in revenue. So we were really that rocket ship, and it was a lot of fun being kind of an in house operator and managing, you know, the warehousing side, you know, where we mostly work with three PLS, as well, as, you know, negotiating shipping costs and procurement and packaging and some CX and planning, kind of all the functions, and, you know, I wanted to start my own business, you know, is sort of the candid truth. And I was born and raised in Canada. I was living here in the United States, and I was living in New York and then San Francisco, and I've been here in Nashville for about eight years. And because I was on work, vi says I couldn't be an entrepreneur right the moment I got my green card, which happened in 2017 which coincides perfectly with when I started my own business, was kind of that moment to say, hey, now I can be an entrepreneur. I can work for myself, start my own business. Let's give it a whirl. So I started on the consulting route because, you know, low barriers to entry, and all you need is a computer and, you know, a network to really start a consulting business. And you know, ran that for, you know, about six or seven years before putting all my energy, you know, all my chips, so to speak, into what we're building here at Third Person.
Jeremy Weisz 12:36
No Mark, thanks for asking that, because it's really interesting to hear the background. And so piggybacking on that. And this is a question mark for you too. Actually, I'm curious. You know, you've seen it now, connecting three PLS, and also working at three pills, what are some of the big mistakes three pls make. And Mark, I want you to answer that too after Matt, yeah.
Matt Hertz 13:01
I mean, how much time do we have? Yeah, you know, I always say that's somewhat tongue in cheek. I mean, I look, you know, three appeals. The market is highly fragmented, right? There are literally over 10,003 PLS, in the United States alone, right? So there's many, many, many, many, many options. I like to say it's kind of like trying to find a bar or a restaurant. You know, you live in Chicago, right? You know, if I said, Hey, you know, find me an Irish pub to go to. I mean, there's, there's an end, learn, you know, find me a state I have somewhere, yeah, sure, yeah, exactly right. And so when there's a fragmented market, you think of, you know, restaurants or hotels or, I don't know, you know, the taxes, right? I mean, you know, markets where there's a lot of options, there's an opportunity to create intelligence, to kind of, you know, bind them, and with three PLS, unfortunately, they are really, really poor at at qualifying leads, right? I like really having self awareness regarding, you know, their ICP, their ideal client profile. Like too many three PL still try to be everything to everyone, and like in my work, you know, having matched now literally 1000s of brands with three PL providers, like I see three PL struggling because they're taking on clients that really don't fit their operational sweet spot, whether that's skew complexity, you know, the it's a threepl that's not set up to take on, you know, fashion, footwear and apparel, which is a very high SKU industry, or order volume too big or too small, or special handling needs, whether it's a company that needs temp control or, You know, refrigeration. So I think, like the best three, pls, heading into 2026 and you know, really, for the foreseeable future, ones who are really, really dialed in and know exactly who they serve best. And you know, more importantly, have the discipline to say no. I think saying no is really, really difficult for many sales people. I've come. Cross at three PLS, who are obviously commissioned to bring in more revenue.
Jeremy Weisz 15:05
I mean, that's, I think, applicable to all businesses, really, is like someone's really focused in on a niche, and their messaging and everything their operations are, you know, streamlined according to the niche they're serving. And what you're saying is a lot of three PLS, could just serve their sweet spot and not take on, you know, maybe clients that would drag down their operations and make things inefficient. And I was curious where you went with that, so I left it broad mark. What about you? What are some and you may have a different take, like from the actual, you know, layout perspective. But what are some of the mistakes you're seeing? You see three PL, because you go in all the time, and you're kind of, you know, outfitting their their operations in a sense,
Mark Hiddleson 15:48
yeah, and we try to find out what the pain points are. And I was thinking of my clients. They're all doing it really well. And I want to say that, well, I mean, let's say
Jeremy Weisz 15:57
before they were your clients, right? I hear
Mark Hiddleson 16:00
the rumor. I mean, there are so Matt touches on, I mean, if you don't have a Matt, what they do is, I would say, and not just my clients, I would say, in general, people will, will try to compete as cost only. And I think that goes to what Matt said about not having your niche. Is our best clients. They really have niche clients that they can serve really well at a really high level. And even when they look it's like, hey, we can find it cheaper over here. You're going, but guys, are you going to get this level of service? So I think, and another thing that the ones that are succeeding, the three appeals that are succeeding, they're sales people, they're heavily trained in operations. That's why I wanted to hear about Matt's background. Because you've been in the warehouse, you know what the costs are. You're not going to make commitments that, you know, it almost makes it hard to sell. You're in operations. It's like, I know we can't do that. It's like, I know I want to sell it. So I think the ones that are doing really well, they have operational people at really high level, making those, you know, developing relationships. Because, like you said it's all about relationships and creating. That's what's exciting about your project, Matt, is that you're really doing a done for you matchmaking service, which, I think that's in three POS. It's the hardest you know, if you had everybody in the right space at the right thing, everybody be happy. The cost structure would be right, and everybody would get their stuff on time, absolutely.
Matt Hertz 17:24
I mean, I, you know, just on that point mark, I like to say that there's not any, yeah, everyone, you know, if I had a nickel for every time a brain came to me and said, I hate my three PL, I'd probably be retired, right? I wouldn't have to run this business, right? Yeah, I'd have, you know, a sack of nickels and but, you know, without sounding overly tongue in cheek, you know, I don't believe that there's that many bad three, pls, I think there's bad matches, right? Like, I use this kind of analogy, you know, going back to the dating analogy that I mentioned earlier, like, imagine, you know, back when I was a single guy living in New York, you know, a 25 year old man, if I walked into a bar on the Lower East Side on a Friday night and said, you know, who's female, who's 25 and who's single, you know, inevitably, a bunch of nice, nice young women raise their hands and I say, let's go get married. And she goes, Yes, that's married. Would that marriage work out for us? It might, but probably not. Why? Because while I did ask three important questions, the fact that she was female at my age and single, I didn't ask, you know, hundreds, or, you know, 1000s and 1000s of other questions that I certainly encourage, you know, my single friends to ask when they're when they're dating, right? So it's really about qualifying those matches, right? Because there's so many three, pls. Brands are really brands. Naively believe that, like, oh, I can work with any of them, right? Or, you know, they work with this other big brand that's aspirational to me, right? I'm a small athleisure company, and they work with Lululemon or view, or, of course, they get a workout for me. No, it's completely different, as you know, yeah.
Mark Hiddleson 19:02
And then also your experience, what was the company with the rental of the clothes? He must have no rental runway. Rent the long runway, because that's reverse logistics. So you learn that early in your career. That's another thing I saw on your website, is you guys offer reverse logistics, and that's a complete niche of its own. So I just, I love what you're doing. And I was going to ask you to you've created an ecosystem. You use the word ecosystem, and I'll jump when, when someone says that, because you're creating the ecosystem of resources. And I notice you have an event that you host. It looks like twice a year. That's a great way to would you mind sharing a little bit about that event? Who you invite and what, what to expect out of that?
Matt Hertz 19:49
Yeah, absolutely no. Thanks for asking me about that. We we launched our first you know, we're calm on retreats, and it's here in Nashville, at the Soho House in Nashville. We had our first one in September. Our next one is going to be in March of 26 it's already sold out, and their next one after that will be also in the fall. So kind of doing like a spring and a fall event, and we're limiting it. We're limiting them to about 45 people. So we want it to be really intentional. We don't want this to be like, you know, if listeners are familiar with, you know, some of the major events, like shop talk or NRF or E tail West and, you know, supply chain manifest is the is the big event. All really fun events, but in my opinion, they're not intentional events, right? Like when there's 45 people in a room and focusing on executives, you know, decision makers, one person per org. So, you know, company can't buy 10 tickets and bring their entire sales team, right? It's literally one person, and it's a curated event, so it's sort of by, you know, it's open to the public, but, you know, we sort of gatekeep. You know, who gets accepted and you know who can, who can join, just to ensure that there's a good, a good mix of brands and three pls and logistics tech providers, yeah, the feedback after the first event in September was, you know, really terrific. So no, like formal sessions, learning about how to negotiate your shipping rates, or learning about, you know, tariffs and the impact there. It's really an opportunity for you know, decision makers to get together in a room, figuratively speaking, over two days and really get to know each other and, like, be candid and share what they're working on and some of the opportunities there. So yeah, next year in March, where we're having a few sponsors, we didn't do that in September, but now that I have a better understanding of the constant economics of big events like this, you know, we decided to feature a few, a few, a few sponsors. So yeah, really, really excited about March's event, and we're already starting to build a wait list for fall of 26 events. So yeah, we, we do expect to have more events like this in the future, some that are probably going to be on a smaller scale. You know, they might be dinners or happy hours, but I think you know the ability to connect the community who are really excited to meet each other. You know, there's a lot of opportunity to do that.
Jeremy Weisz 22:13
Yeah, I'm looking just for people listening. You could check out Third Person co slash retreat for the latest and greatest info whenever you're listening to this, and you can see you have to apply, obviously, from Matt says and to what Mark was saying, and you had some really cool just co you know, people who participate, right? People from Warby Parker, people from Caspian. There's a lot of really interesting companies on here. Do you tend to get a mix of three pls and brands, or what does that look like?
Matt Hertz 22:45
Yeah, we do, and that's, and that's, and that's part of our sort of curation. So what we're, what we're typically targeting, is about a third, a third, a third, you know, third brands. So a third of the roughly 45 attendees are going to be represented by brands, and so, you know, they work at shippers, right? You know, e commerce companies, you know, the Warby Parkers of the world, as you mentioned, you know, we had one 800 flowers in the fall. You know, we've got a number of really, you know, we have Dior coming in March as well. And, you know, Apple was there a couple months ago. So we have about a third of the representatives coming from brands, a third of them coming from three appeals. And the the the other third is kind of this, this other bucket, which I kind of describe as, like logistics tech company. So folks like Caspian, you know, who works on duty, drawbacks, companies like passport, which does cross border. Shipping in the fall, we had two boxes which supports three PLS, with returns management software. So we like to have a really nice mix of, you know, folks in the room, both buyers and sellers.
Mark Hiddleson 23:56
Yeah, that's nice. That's I want to be, I want to sign up. I want to be on the cancelation list for March, but the event I looked in those still take a ton of effort. I've always wanted to do an event, and Jeremy actually helped me. We put together a one day event with a tour and a lunch and a dinner. And I've always wanted to do this, and I figured out why I didn't all those years like this is a lot of work. Well, it's a lot of work. Yeah, connections, because I think of all these people, I'd love to get in the same room, or get them together in the same room, but Steve's not going to drive five hours to meet Brian, but they'll meet together in Napa for an event. So I love that Nashville is a great location, too, and but what you the environment you created, one of the things I like to go to events to learn, stay on the cutting edge, but my best friends on we always joke. All the best conversations happen in the swimming pool. And we used to call it poolside logistics, one on one, because those are the candid conversations like you are talking about, the people feel comfortable going. These are the real pain points, like, here's what they're talking about their round table. This is what and so. And a lot of connections are made in that. That environment,
Matt Hertz 25:01
absolutely and just quickly on that point mark, you know our sort of equivalent of like the pool site conversations, is why we're keeping it at only 45 people, because here in Nashville, at the Soho House, they have, I think, 48 rooms. So we're effectively buying out the entire hotel, part of the Soho House, because we want people, like, when they, you know, when, when we all went to the gym, you know, one morning, you know, I was there, you know, whatever. You know, 7am like, there were half a dozen people, like, on the on the ellipticals and pelotons next to me, like, working out, right? And, you know, they have a sauna there. So, you know, a few of us gone besides. So, like, you have those kind of candid conversations that are not sort of scripted, sitting, you know, in a in a stale hotel, you know, conference center with, you know, black tablecloths, right? And we want it to be really kind of organic and natural,
Jeremy Weisz 25:57
nice, nicely done, you know, Matt, just I want to talk about the the event, but the sponsors for a second, and how you choose sponsors, right? Because obviously there's a curated event, and so obviously they're paying you, so we'll give a shout to them too. But also, what are some of the different types of sponsors I'm looking here. This is for this next one, but obviously you've got a lot of them. Diversify, geodis, red stag fulfillment, that kind of self explanatory. Das revora, what are some of these companies do?
Matt Hertz 26:35
Yeah, so I should have mentioned that for this event, just like the platform Third Person, it's a completely free event for brands to attend, right? Like zero, and the event also includes a two night stay at the Soho House. The only cost to a brand is their travel, right? Obviously, they're local in Nashville, which we had a few last time. They're just an Uber right away, or, you know, car drive. But you know, if they're coming in from Chicago, where we did have a few brands, you know, they're, they're paying their airfare, but otherwise, like, all expenses paid. So, like, incredible, incredible value. You know, I've been com to different events, but usually it's the ticket, it's not the accommodations. But this is different. So, and then three PLS, and logistics tech providers pay about $5,000 to attend the event. So it's 4950, and that also includes the two night stay. So a lot of really great and it's a, you know, a two day event. We have lots of activity, so tremendous value. But you know, we do charge the non brands to attend on the sponsorship side. Again, this is something that we're kind of testing, so to speak, for March, we sold out of our sponsors within the first week, so I think that was a good initial litmus test that there's a lot of interest to sponsor. We've got a few tiers of sponsors, platinum, Sapphire, gold, silver and bronze. They're all other three pls or logistics tech providers and you know, as part of those different sponsors, you know, you get your name associated with different kind of breakout events. So, you know, we're gonna have a couple dinners. We have off site activities, you know, breakfast, lunches, you know, all the stuff they usually expect. But we're really trying to make this less commercial. You know, there's no like booths, you know, there's, there's, there's no exhibit hall or exhibit booths or anything like this. And really have an opportunity for these folks to be in our printing materials and in our social materials as we start really promoting it over the next couple of months. You know, obviously they live on our website now, and you know, the day of the event or the week of the event. At the event, they'll have opportunities, I think at the at the higher two tiers, they'll have opportunities to kind of give a few minute pitch, you know, on who they are, and you know what their what their companies do. And you know, with those higher tiers, they also get comm tickets to the event. So, you know, there's some immediate ROI there. So yeah, just just another little opportunity to kind of showcase a few, a few, a few companies that are doing some really interesting stuff in the market, and are curious to kind of take advantage of, you know, this 45 person you know, ecosystem that they're going to be a part of,
Jeremy Weisz 29:24
yeah, I mean, always curious on people love different resources and software and things to explore. Can you talk a little bit about those, those companies, like, just briefly, what they do? Like, we're I mean, there's probably a number of these things, but looking@diversified.ai which is one of the sponsors, just we can roll through some of those resources that are listed here. What do they do?
Matt Hertz 29:46
Yeah, sure. Yeah. So, I mean, you know, we do have a few, a few, three, pls, on this list. You know, we have, you know, geodis, who's actually based here in Nashville, coincidentally, you know, red stag fulfillment.
Jeremy Weisz 29:56
Do they specialize, like on the geodes and red stag, I know you mentioned. Niche? Do they specialize anything specific?
Matt Hertz 30:02
Yeah, so geodes tends to work with, you know, enterprise brands. So brands that are doing, you know, typically in excess of, you know, 50 to $100 million in sales. So they're really not historically focused on the SMB market, kind of like, you know, the much, you know, larger market. So, you know, Apple is their biggest customer, is my understanding, small Comm, yeah, exactly right. You know, small small fortune, three or two, you know, red stag is interesting. Is there? They're, they're also based in Tennessee, but in Knoxville, Tennessee, and they focus on big and bulky. So they do not do clothing and, you know, apparel and little things. But they were working with, you know, Hex cloud fulfillment, which I think, or hex cloud cookware, which I think you mentioned in the intro, Jeremy, a company that I've supported over the years, and, you know, they were a customer of red stag, given like the big and bulk of their of their product, you know, we have companies like DOS, which is a ERP platform. We have companies like, you know, Tusk logistics, which is an alternative carrier platform just essentially helps connect some of these smaller, regional and alternative carriers that you're seeing more and more in the market. You know, they built some really cool software behind that. You know, we've mentioned Caspian, you know, in the duty drawback space. So really, a nice, a nice mix of, you know, partners who are participating. And you know, gives it gives attendees an opportunity to kind of look at their, you know, especially on the brand attendees, to look at their supply chain, and even like their, you know, where e commerce meets supply chain, look at their entire stack and meet some like, really innovative companies like diversify and DOS and revora.
Jeremy Weisz 31:42
What are those reverse this looks really interesting.
Matt Hertz 31:47
Yeah, yeah. So diversify is actually using this as an opportunity, you know, this event as an opportunity to, you know, my understanding is, you know, they're gonna put to get put put behind a lot of marketing leading up to the event, because they're, you know, announcing some, you know, really interesting, you know, new products and sort of coming out of stealth mode. You've probably not heard of them, because they have been sort of under the radar purposely, you know, for the first few months here. But they're really building an AI based tool that helps, helps shippers and three, pls, kind of optimize their their transportation spend. So they're spending a lot of time on, you know, AI diligence for, you know, billing and allowing, you know, the shipper, the user, to really optimize how they ship and where they ship, you know, across all different carriers. So really interesting business. The other one you mentioned, was
Jeremy Weisz 32:50
you mentioned bravora?
Matt Hertz 32:52
Or was that? Yeah, yeah. So interestingly, you know, bravora is in a similar space as diversify. They're also, you know, very early stage. You know, the two co founders of revora are very good friends of mine. I've known them for over a decade. And they're also building tools and AI for three PLS, to really help them optimize the solutions that they provide customers, you know, the end shipper. So really interesting business that's also very, very early days in their journey. And passport, yeah, sure. So Passport, passport global is a, as the name suggests. They're a cross border shipping carrier. So started by Alex sancher, who's been a friend of mine, also for many years. You know, full disclosure, I am a small, small, small investor in passport, and Alex is a small, small, small investor in Third Person, and a really interesting business, you know, asset life business, but really focused on helping shippers in, predominantly in the United States. And when I say shippers, it's largely three PL customers provide a cross border solution. So if you're a US based brand shipping out of the US into Canada or into the UK, or, you know, elsewhere around the world, you can work directly with passport to facilitate that cross border movement. So it's both the actual transportation piece of it as well, as you know, now with this environment, with tariffs and all the change that's been happening, you know, they've become sort of like the pretty girl at the high school prom, where everyone's curious about, you know, different, different solutions to stay ahead of the market.
Jeremy Weisz 34:38
Love it. No thanks for sharing that mark. I'll let you ask the next question. If you have any other resources to piggyback on that, feel free to share any other companies or software or things, because I know you see a lot of stuff too.
Mark Hiddleson 34:51
Yeah, I was curious if you do anything. I know you mentioned Milk Bar earlier. Do you do a lot in the food space or frozen and Cal. California, that's a lot of our businesses frozen, just a lot of foods grown here. Do you? Do you have those niche three PLS, and clients?
Matt Hertz 35:07
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So, you know, part of my goal with Third Person and create, you know, because it's a marketplace, part of my goal and creating sufficient supply is understanding or ensuring that we have, we have a partner for everyone, right? You know, we want to have both providers who support enterprise shippers, small SMBs, you know, pre launch businesses. You know that that company making, you know, protein powder, that's pre launch. We want there to be options for them. We also want options for alcohol shippers. You know, wine shippers, you know out in your neck of the woods. So, you know wine shipping. Com is one of the largest wine shippers in the market. They do most of the one of the month clubs, you know, in the Napa Valley, and they're on the platform. But we also have options. So if you're shipping fresh salmon, or you have a friend who runs one of the largest stone crab companies in Miami, and they ship stone crab overnight around the around the country. And there's not many three, pls, who would be able to support that, right? You know, with their, you know refrigeration and, you know, frozen capabilities. So, you know, you mentioned milk bar, right? I mean, they're shipping ice cream and cakes and and truffles and highly perishable food, you know, we've worked with, you know, a hand, you know, the the Fulton Fish Market in New York, right? A handful of other brands in kind of a similar space. So we need to ensure that there's sufficient supply. So that would marks steak company, you know, I think you mentioned butcher box earlier in the call. Or, you know, a Fresh Food Company you know, is coming seeking fulfillment support that we have, you know, at least a couple options for them. So, yeah, these, these sort of niches, you know, cannabis, CBD, right? That's becoming really popular too. So yeah, these niches are really important for us to be able to ensure that there's sufficient supply or an ample number of partners who can support their specific needs.
Jeremy Weisz 37:07
I have one last question, and then I'll let Mark ask a question. But you mentioned one thing before I ask. Is I had Dan Zalk, he who started lobster gram in 1986 and so it's funny that interview is, I said, What are the lobsters Howard Stern and Oprah have in common? It was Dan Zalk. He with lobster gramm. I think he got his. He wanted a brand new Lexus. He went into the dealership and just offered him whatever it was, like, $20,000 worth of lobster grams or something like that. And they gave him a free, not free, but they gave him Alexis, or something like that. But it's a fascinating interview. On again, like shipping a lobster overnight, he started, I think putting him in his trunk, and like going to the I think he shipped him himself until he figured out a better way. But, um, you know, my last question is just other you mentioned conferences and groups. I'm wondering in the E commerce space, whether it's logistics or the brands you mentioned shop talk, what are some of the either groups people should check out or other events that are good to check out.
Matt Hertz 38:22
Yeah, look, I'm there's a lot of the big events, you know, we mentioned some of them, you know, I'm certainly biased to, you know, smaller events. I was just out of that house to buy fulfillment IQ, there's another sponsor of our retreat in March, and they do a lot in technical consulting for three pls. I went to an event in Toronto a couple weeks ago, which was really, really rude to have a conference in Canada in the winter, but it was a really terrible one. Yeah, you know, I shared that feedback.
Jeremy Weisz 38:55
It's like having a conference in Chicago that, no, yeah, yeah, exactly.
Matt Hertz 39:00
You know, Toronto might even be worse, but in any event, it was a really fun event. It was a one day event, and there couldn't have been more than 100 people, so it was just another touch point, or I should say, validation that these kind of smaller, more intimate events are really cool. So I've always loved, like the industry specific event. So there's a big event also in Vegas, featuring, and I think it's called it's, it's a major pet conference event. I think it's called, it's not Zootopia, that's the movie, but it's, it's, it's, it's some funny name like that. But, you know, they, they have all these kind of vertical specific events, you know, in beauty and fashion and, you know, the Fancy Food Show, which is, you know, also usually in Vegas. And I tend to enjoy those shows. But, you know, I think the the the ROI on those big events is really difficult to validate or to prove. You know, if you're the one spending super zoom as a super zoo, super. Zoo that's the one, that's the one. Zootopia. Yeah, kids too.
Jeremy Weisz 40:03
So Zootopia would be like, that's what I'm thinking of. But yeah, I got, yeah,
Matt Hertz 40:07
yeah, exactly, super Zoo. And, you know, I'm a big pet guy, you know, dog, dog dad. So I, you know, I do, I do enjoy that. But yeah, I think there, there are certainly other other ways to kind of market yourself into, you know, increase your business, to get leads that are, you know, where as I think the the trade show route is certainly becoming a little stale. So, you know, I love, I love seeing kind of more innovation there. And, you know, having more of these, you know, I, you know, there are a couple companies that I advise, just personally on the side, and they've been really successful in having, like, small dinners, right? There's one that had a a dinner, like a private dinner in Denver last night, and they had, I think it was 18 people at a steakhouse, and also, like, you know, very curated, you know, nice mix of people and, like, at an 18 person dinner at a nice Steakhouse in Denver or in Chicago or here in Nashville, you can actually, like, meet people and have really, really thoughtful conversation. So I don't want to say that I think that's the trend going forward, because I'm still seeing a lot of the of the former, you know, the big 7000 person events, you know, at the Venetian or at, you know, the Bellagio in Vegas. And look, there's a time and a place for that. You know, I go to some of those events as well and get my value. But I think the more sort of intimate settings, you know, in-person environments, you know, the happy hours, the dinners, the one day events, I think are a really interesting opportunity to, you know, participate.
Mark Hiddleson 41:49
Yeah, I love that. I love everything. He said, I'm the warehouse education, research, council national conference is something that I kept on my calendar for years. Have you heard of that?
Matt Hertz 41:59
Matt work, it doesn't, it doesn't ring a bell. Yeah, I
Mark Hiddleson 42:03
want to plug them. It's one of the bigger but that's what we that's where we invented poolside logistics, one on one. So I love, I love everything about what you're doing. And I kind of have a two part question. I don't know if it's even related, but would you mind sharing your your favorite book, either one you've read, you know, recently or all time. And what would you say? Because I have, I mean, I probably have 10 or 20 people that will say, Hey, you really need to check this out. What would you say to the three? Pls, who? Who I tell the check out your website? What would be? What would you advise? So, two part question, favorite book, and what would you tell potential three? Pls, looking at your platform. Yeah, sure.
Matt Hertz 42:43
My favorite book, it's probably a two way tie, but one I the first one I'll mention, I try to read every January, and I've been, I've been having a pretty good record over the last decade or so, but the famous book that we all probably know, Dale Carnegie's How to Win Friends and Influence People, just a, you know, kind of cliche for me to say that, but yeah, just a fantastic, fantastic book. You know, every time I read it, I just, you know, it sort of sort of recalibrates, you know, the way I kind of approach serum situation. So, fantastic book, you know, it's almost 100 years old, and it's still last to test the time, one of
Jeremy Weisz 43:24
my favorites of all time. Love absolutely, yeah,
Matt Hertz 43:26
thank you. Yeah, yeah, great. And then, you know, the other book that I love is going back to my, you know, investment days is and I'm a huge advocate of Warren Buffett. And Warren Buffett's a huge advocate of his teacher, Ben Graham, so the Intelligent Investor. That's a difficult book to read every year, but I've read it a couple times, and, you know, I'm always kind of clipping up excerpts from it. So, yeah, that's a that's, that's also kind of a classic, a classic book as well, you know, probably over 100 years old. Man, 120 years old. So, yeah, fantastic book. Your second question.
Jeremy Weisz 44:06
Before you get to that question, I'm just going to give a shout to Mark's book here, if you're looking on the screen, Mark, just talk briefly about about this.
Mark Hiddleson 44:17
Yeah, I worked on this book. I joked about it because I've been I told people for two years that this project took eight years to complete. So this is kind of a blend of my, you know, my passion for personal development and in my professional and personal story kind of merging. So something I like to share with clients and but it blends Dallas wisdom with, you know, my stories that I've come up with. So a lot of humor, simplicity, but mostly authentic. You know, the biggest lessons I've learned for the biggest mistakes I've made night? I don't share the huge ones in there, but there's enough to keep you entertained.
Matt Hertz 44:54
I love that. Well, next time I'm on I'm on the podcast, hopefully I'll be able to mention how Pete. So I'm gonna, I'm gonna order it now,
Mark Hiddleson 45:02
yeah, mostly, is a lot of fun, yeah, sure.
Matt Hertz 45:06
And then quickly, you know, I know we're running up on time, but mark your second question was, What to tell three, pls, about our website, is that? Was that right? Yes, yes, please. Yeah, sure. So look, I, you know, first and foremost, I'm, I'm happy to talk to any three PL, you know, I spend most of my day having conversations like this, you know, meeting brands and three PL, so always happy to meet any three people that's interested in participating. You know, as I mentioned earlier in the show, we do have a free model. You know, I know that paying a monthly fee is not for everyone. I think we're offering tremendous value. And, you know, we're certainly encourage you to check it out. But if you do want to start, do want to start on the free plan, we also like we don't lock you into contracts. You know, it's you can cancel anytime. Upgrade down grades. We want to keep it really flexible and put the onus on Third Person to provide our value every single month that you're paying us a fee. So we'll love for you to join. And if you're a three po looking for a new qualified lead gen source. There's no better place than to go to thirdperson.co to check it out. So check it out there. You know my email is Matt@thirdperson.co so feel free to shoot me an email as well, or find me on LinkedIn and you know those other channels,
Jeremy Weisz 46:15
Matt, I want to be the first one to thank you. Thanks for sharing the journey. It's been amazing. People can check out thirdperson.co to learn more, you could check out more episodes on inspiredinsider.com and also specialracks.com as well. And thanks. Mark, thanks. Matt, yeah, thanks, awesome.
Outro 46:35
Thanks for listening to The Tao of Pizza Podcast. We'll see you again next time, and be sure to click Subscribe to get future episodes. You.