How To Optimize Warehouse Space With Modern Racking and Mezzanine Systems With Mark Hiddleson
- Rise25 webmaster@rise25media.com
- Feb 1
- 27 min read
Mark Hiddleson is the Owner of Specialized Storage Solutions, Inc., a nationwide logistics company with industry-leading warehouse storage solutions. It provides clients with innovative products, facility layouts, and designs to optimize their logistics operations. With several decades of service experience in the warehousing and logistics industry, Mark has held leadership roles in several professional industry organizations. Using a holistic approach, he also has experience in equipment material handling, operations management, supply chain optimization, professional development, and public speaking.
Here's a glimpse of what you’ll learn:
[2:41] An overview of the main warehouse racking systems Mark Hiddleson designs
[4:09] What are pellet racks, and how do they maximize vertical storage?
[7:32] Why drive-in racks are ideal for cold storage and high-volume SKUs
[11:38] Using double-deep reach trucks to increase pallet storage density
[16:28] Identifying warehouse space opportunities through inventory analysis
[23:20] Rack-supported mezzanines as a solution for multi-level storage
[30:02] Advice for designing a warehouse from scratch
In this episode…
Warehouses are growing taller, denser, and more complex as real estate costs rise and supply chains demand faster fulfillment. Behind every efficient distribution center is a carefully engineered storage system designed to maximize space and improve workflow. What strategies allow businesses to store more while working smarter?
According to warehouse racking and storage expert Mark Hiddleson, it starts with understanding how products move in and out of your facility. Companies should match their rack type to inventory volume, SKU turnover, and picking needs. Mark suggests using selective pallet racks for accessibility, drive-in or pushback racks for higher-density storage, and gravity-fed case flow for faster order picking. The key is designing systems that balance space efficiency with operational flexibility.
In this episode of The Tao of Pizza Podcast, John Corcoran of Rise25 interviews Mark Hiddleson, Owner of Specialized Storage Solutions, Inc., about warehouse racking strategies for maximizing space. Mark discusses the basics of pallet racks, the advantages of pushback and drive-in systems, and how mezzanines and case flow improve storage density and picking efficiency.
Resources mentioned in this episode:
Specialized Storage Solutions, Inc. contact phone: 707-732-3892
Mark Hiddleson's email: markhiddleson@aol.com
Quotable Moments:
“All of these systems are designed to get more out of your existing space, because right now real estate isn’t going anywhere.”
“Pallet rack is kind of the first when someone’s moving into a warehouse, they’re usually going to need it.”
“Pushback is a cart system. It can either be carts or conveyor rollers, and it’s multi-pallet deep.”
“Most people are looking for ways to operate in less space, and we always have to partner with clients.”
“Touring other warehouses, looking at my competitors… that’s really how I’ve learned and gotten ideas.”
Action Steps:
Analyze your inventory flow before choosing racking: Understanding how products move in and out helps you select the right system. This prevents wasted space and improves daily warehouse efficiency.
Use pallet racks to maximize vertical storage: Storing goods upward instead of outward saves valuable floor space. This is essential as warehouse real estate costs continue rising.
Consider pushback or drive-in racks for high-density storage: These systems are ideal when you handle multiple pallets of the same SKU. They increase capacity without expanding your building footprint.
Install case-flow shelving for faster picking: Gravity-fed systems automatically advance products for easier access. This reduces labor time and improves order fulfillment speed.
Explore mezzanines and cantilever racks to expand storage options: Adding multi-level platforms or specialized racks helps store unique inventory types efficiently. These solutions unlock unused space and keep materials better organized.
Sponsor for this episode:
This episode is brought to you by Specialized Storage Solutions Inc.
Listen...
I have been in the logistics and storage industry for several decades. I know I don’t look that old, but it's true.
We provide industry-leading warehouse storage solutions nationwide.
So basically, if you have a warehouse that needs Rack, Shelving, Carts, Conveyors, or Mezzanines, we help with....design engineering, installations, inspections, and repairs to help clients optimize their logistics operations.
Sometimes people don’t even realize that we can actually help with permit acquisition services.
We take a holistic look at your entire business supply chain ecosystem to develop the resources for continually improving your operation.
To learn more, visit specialracks.com or give us a call at (707) 732-3892. One of the best ways to learn more about our products and services is to follow us on Instagram. And there’s a link on our website to do that.
I will even give you my personal email address for podcast listeners, so email me at markhiddleson@aol.com if you’re ready to take your warehouse storage and retrieval systems to the next level.
Episode Transcript:
Intro 0:00
Welcome to The Tao of Pizza where we feature top logistics leaders, entrepreneurs and supply chain innovators and share their inspiring stories with a holistic twist.
Mark Hiddleson 0:14
Mark Hiddleson here, host of The Tao of Pizza Podcast, talks with top industries in the warehousing, logistics, supply chain business with a holistic twist. And today I'm here with my friend John Corcoran of Rise25, and he's going to be interviewing me. Go check out the Rise25 website at www.Rise25.com. They specialize in helping clients reach and contribute to their top 200 business relationships and strategic partners.
John Corcoran 0:43
Mark, I'm so excited to be here with you. We're going to be talking about your expertise, something you've been working on for 30 years or so. You know, if you've ever been into a Costco and you've seen these massive structures, those are the types of structures that support millions of pounds of weight, and you don't want them to come collapsing down. And Mark does an amazing job of engineering those types of systems. So we're going to be talking about how those work, the different types of systems. Of course, this episode first is brought to you by Specialized Storage Systems, Inc, which you have. This is your company. You've been in the logistics and storage industry for several decades, and you provide industry leading warehouse storage solutions nationwide. So basically, if you have a warehouse that needs racks, shelving, carts, conveyors, mezzanines, you help with the design, the engineering, the installation, the inspection, the repairs, even permitting all that kind of stuff. And so if you want to learn more about that, go to special racks com. You can also call them at 707-732-3892. You can also email Mark. Markhiddleson@aol.com Yes, he still does use an AOL. They still exist. Somehow. He might be the last one to turn off the lights on that email account. But Mark, it's so great to have you here too. Let's dive into this. So you know, it's become so much more important in recent years. You know, you see massive Amazon warehousing cropping up all over the country. Of course, everyone's been to a Costco or Sam's Club. So logistics, e-commerce, supply chain, all these different systems have to build warehouse storage systems. And you're an expert in how to build these different systems. And we're going to break it down. Break it down the different types of systems, and specifically the different types of racks that make up the components that build this giant ecosystem. So let's give me an overview first of the different types of racks that you work with on a daily basis, and then we'll go into them individually.
Mark Hiddleson 2:41
Okay, so, so starting out with the ones you mentioned in Costco are called pallet racks. And so we'll talk a little about that. That's kind of the first low hanging fruit. And then a lot of our clients use driving racks if they've got higher volumes with more pallets of the same skew. And then dry pushback racks are another way to get more out of your space. All these systems, they're designed to get more out of your existing space, because right now, with the cost of real estate, it's not going anywhere. So what we do is help people optimize their space. So we'll talk about selecting a rack, which is just a regular pallet rack, and driving in racks which are a little more dense, and then push back racks, which is a dynamic system, because the pilots roll forward using gravity. And then we'll get into it. I wanted to talk about rack supported mezzanines, if we have time, because that's a great way to maximize space. And then also case flow. And finally, the cantilever, which is a little different. Cantilever is more for lumber industries or people storing longer like extruded metals or things that are stored, you know, 1020, feet long cantilever racks and really heavy loads. Cantilever is designed to organize and store those types of things.
John Corcoran 3:54
And you really hit the nail on the head with, you know, real estate, just prices just go up and up and up. And so it's so important to be efficient with the space that you have. So let's start with pallet racks. Explain to me what a pallet rack is and how you optimize for it.
Mark Hiddleson 4:09
So pallet rack, yes, let's talk about palette rack. It is one of my favorite words by a lot of people. There's confusion. If you haven't, if you've been to a Costco, that's the easiest way you see they're usually green and orange. Home Depot has a lot of them. The ones in Home Depot are just orange. So if you just go in the store, you're just looking for what you're looking for. You don't really see the palette racks, but they're there. And Home Depot is actually great . I used to go there when I was first in the business and look, because they have so many ways, with all the brackets and ways you can load a pallet rack. I mean, they have ways to arrange things like moldings and boards where it's vertically divided. They've got just individual boxes on there and levels that are, you know, 10, 1215, inches apart, like a normal store shelf. And then up above, they've got pallet storage. So like. Home Depot is a really great example of a really large variety of ways you could use pallet racking. It's probably 90% of what we do, and it's basically you're able to store things. You know, 1020, the tallest ones we've done. The rack itself is 42 feet tall, and you can actually put a six foot pallet on top of that. So it's a really great way to stack products that you didn't know, most things you can't stack more than two or three high, and some things you can't stack at all just because of the weight or the boxes or it's going to tip over. So palette rack is kind of the first when someone's moving into a warehouse, they're usually going to have some form or need for pallet racking.
John Corcoran 5:44
And are these accessible with a forklift, like a forklift can get in there? Yeah.
Mark Hiddleson 5:49
So for example, the Home Depot, one of my favorite things is where someone needs a pallet off the top, and they come and block off the aisle, and they come in with a forklift. So you can either load it by hand or forklift. Most companies are kind of a combination of both, because a lot in a warehouse, a distribution center, they're pulling a case at a time, a lot of time, you think of like a grocery operation. They're not sending pallets of stuff to their stores. They're usually building a rainbow palette, where there's multiple different products on one pallet. So one pallet the grocery store could have, you know, multiple different boxes of canned, you know, canned goods all the way to toilet paper and stuff like that. So on the lower levels, they call it a pick level, because they're picking the orders. It's by hand. And then up above is pallet storage.
John Corcoran 6:40
I'm showing a video here. So these are the, as you mentioned, orange and green colors. Most of them are here.
Mark Hiddleson 6:45
They're mostly green and orange, blue and orange. One of my favorite projects, we've done them in different colors. We have a customer that only uses white racks with blue load beams. And that's kind of neat. He can play with the colors, but green and orange is the standard. And then, like I said, Everything Home Depot does, it's all orange. And that's what I don't think people notice it when you unless you're looking for, you don't really see it in Home Depot, because, like I said, you're looking for your paint or your sand paper boards or whatever,
John Corcoran 7:14
right, right, right? All right. So that's palette racks. So let's talk about pushback racks. I understand that when a pallet is loaded, it pushes the previous palette back. Explain to me how
Mark Hiddleson 7:26
it works, yeah. So I wanted to talk a little bit about driving first, that's right, drive in systems and push back. Okay. And so it was a great question that you asked me, are these services with a forklift? And so in distribution, there's a lot of different ways that product comes in and out. And so in, particularly in the Central Valley of California, there's an industry where, you know, they harvest all the vegetables and everything, and that has to be frozen, put in a warehouse for a long time. Like when they harvest, they don't just ship all that stuff out within a month. Has to be stored and in environments like that cold storage, you've got multiple pallets of the same SKU and a great way to store that. And again, you can't stack these, like some products, like, if it's soda, you usually can just stack it to the ceiling. It's not going to tip over. Even wine, it can be five even. Sometimes people do it six pallets high. If it's done right, you have the right kind of packaging. What drive in allows you to do is that same sort of stacking where it's multiple pallets deep. So it's ideal if a lot of the drive in systems we do are six pallets deep and four pallets high. It equates to about a truck load. Most truckloads are about 22 pallets. And so the concept is you can put a whole truck load in there, but it has to move like that. So if you're only moving one or two pallets at a time, driving in is not going to be a great solution, because you have to take all the pallets out of that system to get to the last one on the bottom. We've done a lot of driving in parts because of California we're at, like say, a lot of Ag, cold storage, but it really works in any environment where you've got multiple pallets of the same SKU and it moves in palette quantities. I mean, really, you're not going to be pulling individual cases off of a driving rack, because it'll take forever to empty it out and then push back. Rack is the next evolution beyond drive in rack. So pushback rack takes that same concept, and with Drive in or push back, you could go too deep. It could go three deep, four deep. So you're obviously going to get more storage if you go 60. But if you look at your data and you see that you're mostly moving eight to 10 pallets at a time, then it makes more sense to do something like a two deep five high system or two deep 40. That way you're always moving, you know, emptying those out 100% before you fill it back out. Now push back. And there's a good video on pushback that I'll share. We'll put it on. In the show notes. But pushback is a cart system. It can either be carts or conveyor rollers, and it's multi pallets deep, but each level you can get to those pallets, so say, for example, instead of a 60 or four high 60 drive in, where you have to move 24 pallets, if it's a 60 pushback, you only need to have six pallets. So the advantage is that you can have different SKUs in the same Bay, and it just gives you more accessibility. And there's, actually, there's a formula that you use your space utilization with pushback. It's, if you think of what the drive in, it's either 100% full or it's 100% empty, because you have to empty it to get that last pile on the floor. So you really only have 50% of your storage, because when it's zero, it's empty. And like I said, if you're turning it really fast, that's not a big deal. With pushback, your utilization goes up to 75% or it depends on how deep it is, but you can take six pallets out and not have to touch the other 18. So it just gives a lot more flexibility for our clients. And a lot of our clients are in the public storage or third party warehousing industry, where they are moving pallets at a time.
John Corcoran 11:23
So they so you really need to understand what their usage is and and not just that, but it might be what their clients usage is in it might be the case that they don't have the clients yet, or the clients haven't moved in yet, so you're kind of anticipating future usage.
Mark Hiddleson 11:38
It absolutely is. And so that's the nice thing about pushback. And we have, there's sort of a trend right now. I'm hoping it catches on more. But there's a pilot rack. So going back to the pilot rack design, there is, I don't know who invented it, but Raymond material handling is one of the good forklift companies. The Crown is another one. Somebody invented a double deep reach truck. So you can actually take a pallet rack, and instead of just having a single pilot deep, you can have it double deep. So it's the same racks. You just set them up double deep. And because those forklifts are so clever, and a lot of people in our business do what I do, they also sell forklifts. So we don't specialize in just the systems, and we usually partner with a forklift company for our clients, but they have these great lifts. So a lot of the facilities they did design, they just did it with a double D. It's like, Hey, we've got this great piece of equipment. You're getting twice the density that you would with a single D. And so we just helped a client recently in the Midwest, in a cold storage environment, where they had 13,000 pallets stored in a double deep racking system, and we took it out and replaced it with five deep pushbacks. So what they got is similar turns. So with the two deep, you really have to turn two pallets at a time. With the five deep, you have to turn five pallets at a time. But that five deep system, you give them an additional 6000 pallet positions, and their revenue is based on pallet positions of storage, right? And the other thing in a freezer environment, the more full that freezer is, the easier it is to keep the temperature down because there's less air to cool.
John Corcoran 13:24
So they're, so they're, they're cooling costs go down also, yeah, exactly.
Mark Hiddleson 13:29
The energy cost goes down. So it was a real, you know, for that client, I think it was a year to 18 month payback on that investment. And then now you've got 6000 spots you can sell every year after that as a-plus. So we're seeing, like I said, there's a lot of two deep reach systems out there, because, like I said, it's a great lift, and it's just kind of a simple way, if you just want to optimize your operation. So that's a great place to start. But if somebody has a facility that either has single deep racking or double D, if you have single deep racking, you might want to go to double deep reach or push back. And we were involved in a lot of drive in and push back products. And so we also, we stopped quite a bit of that, which most people in an industry don't, because the system, you know, power x, pretty simple. It's uprights beams and either Palace supports or some kind of decking. It gets a lot trickier with the drive in, just because there's more components. And the way it goes together, the way it's engineered, is a little more technical, and then the pushback is even more because it's a nested cart system that, you know, on a six deep system, there's five carts, and they nest together, and they're designed to just go back one at a time, and again, we're going to, we'll put that video in the show notes. It's probably, I think it's a, it's a nine minute video. I know some people only have a two minute, two minute attention span, but if you're running a DC and you don't have one, if you've either got dry. In or regular rack. You'll want to look at this pushback video, because it's a pretty simple way. And the biggest project we did was 42 feet tall. So it's, I'm not a good lift truck driver. I can't imagine what that's like in a zero degree freezer, 42 feet in the air. Oh yeah. We have six deep, five deep, four deep and three deep in that warehouse.
John Corcoran 15:24
So I'm also picturing the guys who have to install this stuff. It's not like you can turn off the freezer, so they're in the freezer for hours and hours, like installing this stuff in some kind of heavy park. I imagine it's
Mark Hiddleson 15:35
Another interesting thing about our business. A lot of what we do is in freezers. And it's another interesting side note. The equipment that we rent is important to do that. So you have to have a scissor lift that'll go that tall, and a lot of equipment because of the oils they use in the hydraulic system. Work in the cold. It gets cold in it. So they have to use hydraulic fluid that doesn't, you know, most things, anything except for water, shrinks when you freeze it. Yeah, and so you have to have specialized equipment to work.
John Corcoran 16:04
Interesting, interesting. And I also want to ask you about, you know, you've been doing this for so many years. You must be able to walk into a warehouse and look around and be like, Oh, you are missing out on so much opportunity. Here, over here, over here, over here. I can see all these different spots where you can get more, you know, opportunities out of the space that you have.
Mark Hiddleson 16:28
So really, I do it's true, and most people are looking for ways to operate in less space. So we have a customer right now that they're going to sign a lease on a larger building in three months, the permitting and temporary occupancy and all that's going to take three months, and they need an interim storage and they're kind of shrinking their their footprint, so we're able to, you know, the little value engineering and design, use their existing stuff, reconfigure it. I think we'll probably cut their footprint in half, and it's temporary, so it's not going to be the greatest because the thing is, when you store stuff more when you get more density, you have less selectivity. So the example of the drive in racks, you've got to touch 24 pallets to get to the last one. But then you're storing 24 pallets in the space where you could probably store eight or 10 with a conventional racking system. So, yeah, I can look in, but we always have to partner with our clients too, because the key part is that volume and the turns. There's some different words that people look for it, and some customers have a really good handle on what their turns are, but a lot of our clients don't, and so I want to, I spend time with them and getting, you know, if they don't know the answers, there usually is somebody in the organization who has the answer, how far are we, you know, how fast are we going? So we'll use that same client as an example. They're in the wine distribution business, and they're going into a smaller space. Well, when I walked through their existing space, I noticed a lot of the pallets. It wasn't a full pallet. And so I said, What's your you know, when you look at your product profile, what is most of what you have? And he said, Well, it's mostly less than 20 cases. So less than 20 cases of the same SKU. And in the wine business, that's about a half a pallet. And I said, so when we set up your new place, we're gonna have a lot of half pallet locations instead of full palettes, because you'll be able to fit twice as much there. And then we also created, you know, going back to the Home Depot example, where you got shelves that are just 10, 1215, inches apart, that they can just put one case and three cases deep. So if you have, they have a lot of SKUs that they only have three or four cases. We can you design
John Corcoran 18:49
Is it differently from the get go? Then, yeah, yeah.
Mark Hiddleson 18:52
Just reminding myself of another one where we put shelving in. I had a client that I've known for 20 something years. He's been with nine different companies, but he's really smart, and he's really smart, and he's one of the guys that can go to a company, they'll find out right away. And it was a smaller project that is a warehouse. They probably had 60 pilot positions available in their warehouse. Has about three truckloads but it was all rainbow palettes. It was one case of this, one case of that, a large format bottle. And so anytime they needed to pull an order, they'd have to get a pallet down and then go through that whole palette and find the order and then put it back. So first glance, it looks like, well, they got a lot of stuff into a little bit of space. Well, with Stan, this guy's name is Stan. I'll have to give Stan a shout out. He looked at the numbers and said, Hey, we can fit all 60 of these pallets on the lower level, on shelving with, again, 10 to 12 to 15 inches apart. And I was amazed. I had to go in there and look at it at the end, kind of do a final inspection. I looked and all those 60 pallets, it was gone. So they're actually bringing in another client. That's more than half a full palette. So they've got and they basically gain their whole warehouse back. And the even better news is when they pull an order, now, you just go through and everything's organized. And if you've got a case of something or three cases, or two cases, it's all right there.
John Corcoran 20:15
Sorry, let's, let's move on to case flow shelving. Case flow shelving. What is that? How does that fit into this system here?
Mark Hiddleson 20:24
So case flow is, if there's a great segue from that story with Stan to the case flow. So case flow is similar to the pushback and that you're using gravity, but it is a first in, first out. So case flow is like a miniature conveyor that you can set a box on, and you put it in the back of the rack, and it'll flow through to the front. And so with storage densities, it's kind of the same thing you look at just using the wine industry. Because I'm in the Napa Valley, I love using wine as an example. It's kind of a, you know, it's a 12 inch by 12 inch box. And everybody loves to talk about wine. I love to drink wine. But in a bay where you could just imagine, you could have two pallets, or four half pallets, you can have 28 case flow locations. So with that conveyor, you just have a product that rolls, you know, it's first in, first out, and you put it in the back, unload it from the front, but you can go about seven across and four high. And so in that really limited space, you can fit a lot of stuff. And so it's great. The first in, first out is nice. Because one of the things, if you get, you know, if you get three or four cases deep, and somebody keeps pulling the front case and putting one in front of it, you're not always completely emptying out that one. Emptying out that one that's in the back just stays there. Yeah, yeah. And it happens. You'd be surprised when inventory gets lost. And then, and it's also, you know, when you're running a warehouse, the bigger operation when the gravity pulls it to the front. You can see if there's a boss, you can visually look at it if, if it's in the back on the pallet rack, you kind of have to peek and look, yeah, just see what's back there. So the case flows, and then you can have everything really closer together, because you're not having to reach in so far.
John Corcoran 22:10
So even your labor costs can go down because they're not reaching into the back to try and pull something out. It just comes up to the front. Yeah.
Mark Hiddleson 22:16
And the key to knowing you know what you want to put in case flow is again, having that eight cases like, how fast are returning? Eight cases you really don't want to be there's a lot of different ways people use it. You know, it wouldn't make sense if you were having to recharge it every day. Yeah, some, some of our clients do. So some people will actually use a case flow system like that. They know their orders are coming ahead of time. So they'll break it all down into the case flow, because usually clients, they have time the day before or at night when you're when you're doing replenishment, you've got time, but when you're pulling the orders, you're kind of under the gun, because the FedEx truck is going to be there, Golden State overnight is going to be there. So they'll use the case flow to organize everything and get it all ready. And then that way, when the order picker, they can just come by and pull their order without having to grab pallets from up above or look for stuff.
John Corcoran 23:14
All right, we're up to rack supported mezzanines. What are rack supported mezzanines?
Mark Hiddleson 23:20
So rack supported mezzanine is one of the things I love, because a lot of people don't even know this is possible. And okay, so make this some pictures in the show notes, but it's basically, it's a racking system, and you put a floor in between them, or it's called a catwalk. So you could have a we just did one for Patagonia, and what they originally had asked us for. And this, this is one. This is something we do differently. Most places, you know, they call you say, hey, I need 100 up rights and 800 beam. So they'll just quote it like, I'll usually stop and say, Well, what business are you in? How are you doing it? Now, a lot of questions. Well, Patagonia came to us and somebody had seen and they're in a lot of and then we weren't scheduled to talk about this, but mobile aisle racking. So if you ever went there's a great that's a great rack supporter, doesn't even page, but they asked me for mobile aisle shelving. So there's a type of shelving where you can have a mobile aisle. It's usually in the back of a shoe store. It's in retail, like, where space is really at a premium, but you can basically move the shell. You just have one aisle. And so if you need to get it to a shelf, there's usually, like, a crank system. Some of them are hydraulic, manual, and so they wanted to put this eight foot tall mobile aisle shelving system for their catalog samples. So it's not a true warehouse where things are going in and out. It's a catalog. They need to take a picture of a jacket, like everything that Patagonia ever made is in there. And so if they want a picture to do something like the archives, yeah, is the archive. And it was a really cool project, just because Patagonia, yeah, that's cool. But I. I looked at it, and I was thinking, for the cost, and they had this really tall Bill that was like, 24 feet tall. And I was saying, Well, if you have this, if you build this mobile aisle system, first of all, it's more expensive than a two tier racking system or rack supported mezzanine. If you do this, when you run out of space in the future, you're gonna have to come and build a mezzanine over the top of the structure, and that's going to cost even more. So the rack supported was just as it was the perfect solution for them, because it was, instead of being eight feet tall, it was 20 feet tall, with a floor in between. And so there's a stairway, and there's basically upstairs. There's a hallway between the racks, and you can store things up there, and you can put the stuff that you know that you're going to need more frequently down below, the stuff that you know you're not going to have to get to. You can put it up top, and it's a solution that works really well. Where you see those are like an automotive dealership, where they have a lot of different parts, any kind of parts counter, like one of our plumbing distributors, you know, electrical distributors, somebody that has a lot of small little parts and pieces. We've even built them for maintenance shops, where they've just got to keep a certain amount of stuff on hand. And it's just a great way to use the space. I mean, it's really like building a mezzanine is probably half the cost to build a rack supported mezzanine. And then it also includes the shelving below and the shelving above. So you're building the structure that's 20 feet tall, and it's just got a stairway with a catwalk, and they're pretty cool looking.
John Corcoran 26:39
Yeah, all right. Last one, cantilever racks. So they use horizontal arms that extend from vertical columns. Tell us about this one.
Mark Hiddleson 26:47
Yeah, so the cantilever rack is a little bit different. It's more you usually see them outside alone, thinking the last few ones we did were inside, but it's for the lumber industry. So think of very heavy products, things that are longer, 810, 12 feet. And cantilever racks are designed to take a lot of weight because, like, a unit of lumber is like 5000 pounds. It's probably going to be distributed over three arms. Home Depot is another great place to look at cantilever racks if you go in the lumber department. At the Lumber department at Home Depot, they're going to have cantilever racks. And there's a lot of different design criteria for cantilever racks, depending on your weight and what you're storing is how far apart. So you could have those. If you go to Home Depot, they use 32 inches, which is pretty close. So it costs a lot more to put them, you know, they probably could make them four feet apart and still carry their loads, but they put them closer together. Because now, if you're there 32 inches apart, it doesn't matter. You could put something five foot long, eight foot long, 20 feet long, and you're going to have your capacity is going to be fine, because it's based on, you know, each arm is probably rated for 2000 pounds. So if you got a 5000 pound unit, you need to make sure that there's three arms under there. So if you did the spacing wrong, if they were four feet apart, there would only be two arms, then you could potentially overload it. But you see cantilever in the lumber industry, we've got contractors that supply the plumbing. So, like pipe, copper pipe, usually with ABS, just because you can stack, that's the thing. The racking comes in. If you have a product that you would just stack it up if you could, but you can't, you know, some pipes you just can't stack. And then if you want to have something different you want to have access to different SK. Using the cantilever is a great way to organize it, the cabinet. Cabinet shops are a real opportunity, because a lot of them don't have a cantilever racking system. And what happens in that we're talking about the shelf or that box gets stuck in the back, you know, plywood, and the stuff they use in cabinetry is really expensive stuff. And, you know, a lot of people end up ordering stuff that they already have because they don't know they have it, because it's in a stack somewhere in the back where cantilever racks. You can, you can organize it, and you can get it up. You're using the vertical space, which does a lot of like, go in if somebody doesn't have a rack. And I look at that building, that's me, I automatically go get what's all this space up here? Yeah. How can we use it? And so cantilever is, it's not as common. There was a run on the cantilever. When building, when the building industry is really booming and people are building a lot of buildings, and there's a lot of supply, cantilever racks come into demand. And it's really, I'm actually working on a few projects now, so maybe, maybe that's a good sign.
John Corcoran 29:44
Yeah, it's an interesting arbiter of the economy. All right. Yeah, it is. All right. Mark, last question. So if I'm in business, I'm designing a warehouse from scratch today. In addition to watching this video, how should they think about choosing the right one? Tracking System from the beginning.
Mark Hiddleson 30:02
Well, they should, obviously, they should call us.
John Corcoran 30:04
Give you a call. Yeah.
Mark Hiddleson 30:10
So, it's a great question, so the lift EQ, so how are they doing it now? I mean, I really need to take a look at how that's really one of the questions I have asked my customers too is, how are you guys doing it now, what works and what doesn't? Another trip to Home Depot, which I said that on the video. But another good thing is your competitors and suppliers. So whatever business you're in, you've got, you're buying your product from somewhere, and so how are they storing it? And that's going to be different for them, because they're probably shipping in Pallet quantities, and you're shipping an individual but still, there'll be some generalizations about how they're, how they're storing it, and then competition, you know, how are other companies doing that? And here's my favorite. So I used to, and we're getting back into this. I used to host warehouse tours with a group called Warehouse Education and Research Council. And we would find a warehouse that was doing something automation, conveyor, something unique. And we've toured Amazon. We toured Patagonia's facility in Reno, the distribution center. But to get ideas, that's another, even if it's not your competitors, or your supplier, visit any warehouse where they're storing things and see how they're doing it there. Because it's amazing how many of these, you know, systems or ideas or ways of storing things. It transfers across a lot of industries, and the stuff that you especially three pls. I mean, if you could, if you could get to two or three PL and see how they're doing, because, and it's funny, three PL, I'm getting careful about this language. Some people are looking at three PL is managing multiple trucking companies because it's third party logistics. But what I mean by three PL is like a public warehouse, where somebody who's storing multiple different clients in a warehouse. And however they're doing it, they're going to be doing it. You know, my friend Chris Murphy, he's a public warehouse. They probably have all of them. They have all of these systems. I don't think they have a rack supported million. They probably need one for their archive record stores.
John Corcoran 32:17
That's in the video. What's that? Yeah, seven this video, he'll change,
Mark Hiddleson 32:21
yeah, well, so he's going to manifest. So that's another thing you could do. You could attend industry events. And really, that's how I've learned, touring other warehouses, looking at my competitors and yeah, and calling us and having your suppliers call us. That's one of the things. We've gotten a lot of referrals that if we're doing business, we get introduced to clients, and we get introduced to suppliers and and sometimes even competitors,
John Corcoran 32:47
and speaking that. So just to wrap things up, special racks com is the website, your email, Markhiddleson@aol.com, and the phone number is 707-732-3892, you also, of course, you can check out the podcast, The Tao of Pizza, and also contact you on LinkedIn, anywhere else people should go to connect with you.
Mark Hiddleson 33:11
You know, we're on Instagram, @rackman_napa is my Instagram handle, and I'm super active on Instagram, but I think it's one of those things that we need to be there for the long term. So the best way I would say is LinkedIn or send me an email that AOL emails, my personal email that I only give out to podcast guests now.
John Corcoran 33:32
But great, great email. Thanks, Mark, thanks so much.
Mark Hiddleson 33:37
Yeah, thank you, John, this has been awesome.
Outro 33:40
Thanks for listening to The Tao of Pizza Podcast. We'll see you again next time, and be sure to click Subscribe to get future episodes.
Comments