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What Event Has Shattered Your World Views? [Integral Attunement: The Dilettante Athlete]

Updated: Dec 11, 2022

Mark Hiddleson

Mark Hiddleson is the Owner of Specialized Storage Solutions, Inc., a nationwide logistics company with industry-leading warehouse storage solutions. It provides clients with innovative products, facility layouts, and designs to optimize their logistics operations.

Mark has several decades of service experience in the warehousing and logistics industry, with leadership roles in several professional industry organizations. Using a holistic approach, he also has experience in equipment material handling, operations management, supply chain optimization, professional development, and public speaking. He holds a bachelor’s in economics and a master's degree in holistic health education.

Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn:

  • What is integral attunement?

  • The different types of archetype

  • What is a dilettante?

  • The “dilettante athlete” archetype

  • The importance of embracing the shadow side of our personality

  • Why does generating attunement give us archetypal freedom?

  • The opportunity to create transformation

In this episode…

Have you had experiences that made you question everything you know and believe in? How do you process your doubt and continue with your normal routines?

Mark Hiddleson explains that you encounter the shadow aspects of archetypes when you experience a major life event, and the integral attunement process is important to embrace the shadow side of these archetypes. He emphasizes that integrating both the light and shadow types of the archetype is an important skill.

In this episode of The Tao of Pizza Podcast, host Mark Hiddleson is interviewed by Dr. Jeremy Weisz of Rise25. Mark discusses integral attunement, how it relates to professional and personal life, and how he uses these principles as a guide in his daily life. He also talks about the various archetypes, using the “dilettante athlete” archetype as an example. Mark also explains the importance of embracing the shadow type of personality and creating transformation.

Resources mentioned in this episode:

Sponsor for this episode...

This episode is brought to you by Specialized Storage Solutions Inc.


I have been in the logistics and storage industry for several decades. I know I don’t look that old, but it's true.

We provide industry-leading warehouse storage solutions nationwide.

So basically, if you have a warehouse that needs Rack, Shelving, Carts, Conveyors, or Mezzanines, we help engineering, installations, inspections, and repairs to help clients optimize their logistics operations.

Sometimes people don’t even realize that we can actually help with permit acquisition services.

We take a holistic look at your entire business supply chain ecosystem to develop the resources for continually improving your operation.

To learn more, visit or give us a call at (707) 732-3892. One of the best ways to learn more about our products and services is to follow us on Instagram. And there’s a link on our website to do that.

I will even give you my personal email address for podcast listeners, so email me at if you’re ready to take your warehouse storage and retrieval systems to the next level.

Episode Transcript:

Intro 0:01

Welcome to The Tao of Pizza where we feature top logistics leaders, entrepreneurs and supply chain innovators and share their inspiring stories with a holistic twist.

Mark Hiddleson 0:17

Mark Hiddleson here host of The Tao of Pizza Podcast where I talk with top industry innovators in the warehousing logistics and supply chain business with a holistic twist. Before I introduce today's guests, I'd like to mention Vicki Dello Joio, I had her on my podcast a few weeks ago, her her energy, she's a master teacher, and Vicki a way of joy is her website. And today I have Dr. Jeremy Weisz here of Rise 25. He has done 1000s of interviews with successful entrepreneurs and CEOs. And we flipped the script today and he'll be interviewing me, Jeremy, welcome to The Tao of Pizza.

Jeremy Weisz 0:58

Mark, thanks for having me. I'm excited. You know, each time we chat, we get to talk about the archetypes and how the archetypes relate to business and personal. And so we're going to talk about the integral attunement today and how that relates to business and your personal life and how you kind of run your life off of some of these principles. And before we get to that this episode is brought to you by Specialized Storage Solutions. And I know anyone who knows you, Mark, you've been in this logistics and storage industry for decades. And you provide industry leading warehouse storage solutions nationwide. So basically, if someone has a warehouse, and they need racks, shelving, carts, conveyors, mezzanines, even design engineering, installations, inspections, repairs, anything, they should call you, if you don't have the answer, you'll find someone who does, because you probably know just about everyone in the industry. At this point. Sometimes people don't even realize that you can actually help them with permit acquisition services. So you take a holistic approach, as people can see from the podcast episodes to someone's entire business. And that kind of goes into what you do as a business because you work with a supply chain ecosystem, which kind of touches every part of the business. So if someone wants to learn more, they go to special give you a call 707-732-3892. And you even leave your email address. If podcast listeners have questions, it's So talk a little bit about an integral attunement and I know we're gonna get into the archetypes.

Mark Hiddleson 2:42

So attunement, and is kind of, if we look at, I look at humans and as, as an instrument, it's like, it's like tuning an instrument in the field to get all the different things that we can do, we can touch people's lives, we can inspire creativity, create solutions, and right now I look at you know, sometimes I look at different generations and the problems that we had to solve. And, you know, now I'm looking at the younger generation and, and I'm going, you know, we did our best, well, it's gonna take some attunement, to, you know, what we're really capable as humans in finding with the, one of the reasons I like the archetypes and I had to choose when I did this or that choose something that I've worked with over the years to for attunement, and the art and archetypes is one of them, but it's really integrating the shadow aspects of some of these archetypes because, you know, popular culture usually, you see the archetypes but it just shows the good side or the bad side. And so even, you know, some of the best movies, they've that they make a villain where he is sort of like the villain you know, like Kirby and the clown is one of my favorite archetypes. What I really like the Joker, even though he's up to bad things you look at places doing, but all of the archetypes is not like the clown is good. And then Don Juan is bad. It's that they all have. And all people archetypes are as old. You know, they've been through cultures, you know, the stories that we keep telling ourselves. The archetypes keep showing up. And to me, it's helped me as I brought this work, you know, that I've done myself in, in leadership and I got a quote here. I'm going to read about leadership from Tom Landry and just went to a football game yesterday. So my voice is a little I didn't realize so I started talking but I've got about half of my voice because I've been attuning my, my life around this week's archetype which is the athlete. And not just the athlete, but the dilettante athlete, and I'll go into a dilettante means it's like the word The week

Jeremy Weisz 5:02

I guess it's fitting that Tom Landry have the quote.

Mark Hiddleson 5:05

Yeah, the Tom Landry quote and it says leadership is getting somebody to do something that they don't want to do to achieve what they want to achieve. And, and we talked a little about the different archetypes the Don Juan is sort of the seductive archetype where you really want to be persuasive to get people to do things. And I love Tom Landry because he was I'm a Dallas Cowboys fan. But, you know, back when he was coaching, he had this super conservative he was almost infamously he was like, super Christian. You know, guys, and like, I think a football player is when I was in the locker room, like it's pretty loosey goosey in there, I do stuff and the pranks, he pull in the language and everything, but he was a high character, you know, faith based leadership, and I never saw him speak or anything. It was died before I was old enough, but I saw Mike Ditka. give a speech about Tom Landry. And he talked about he found him at a point in his career, you know, he was a big shot football player. And that's one of the things about the athlete. I love the athlete because it has to do with training, using your gifts, developing your physical gifts, and really, you know, going beyond and above training in ways that other people don't. But the shadow of the athlete is kind of a false bravado. Right. Like we're the jocks. And we're, you know, we can do whatever we want, because we're athletes, or there's this bravado, and a lot of it's earned. There you go. And then you look at these football. Like, yeah, none of these guys. When we first started going to games, there's a group of business people I go with, and one of the guys is like, really buff, like I'm a bigger guy, but this guy is just like ripped Bay and I would sit in the stands and we love to watch warmups, because, you know, these guys are going to play professional football game is three hours, will they warm up for like four hours, you know, to play 20 minutes, but I'd like I'd go, Hey, would you fight 50 To get his martial arts guy or everything. He's like, Nah, man, I wouldn't fight him. And then it was like how some of the popular players what would you fight to? Are you remember Terrell Owens, he and he was a big blob, that fast guy. I'm like, Man, he's so fast. He would kill you any soft fight. I'm in a phone booth, which I think was Muhammad Ali thing. But it's just, you know, it's part of being an athlete, and I think winning and one of the reasons I like Tom Landry and what Ditka said is, you know, we all thought we were big shots and he was going to go he was going to buy a nightclub and he was going to go into the nightclub industry and Tom Landry pulled them back into coaching and say hey, look, man, you're you're high character guy. You're gonna be a good coach. People are gonna look up to you. And so he really talked my dick out of going down a life path that might have been been different and you know, influence his life and then you know, they can went on to coach the bears influence a lot of other he had guy he told good stories about the who was the quarterback, they had McMahon, Jim McMahon. Jim McMahon said they were it was a Super Bowl, and they had a car, they had a curfew, everyone was supposed to be in no one was supposed to be partying or anything like that. Well, some of the guys obviously had been out partying and he went in, you know, the game was like, 7/31, meetings, whatever. And he sees McMahon in his eyes were all bloodshot and everything, and he could tell that he had been out and he was really pissed. He's like, man, he goes, I don't know, if you're apathetic or ignorant, but you don't know what you're doing. And McMahon said, Well, I don't know. And I don't give a shit. Which is the definition of ignorance and apathy. So I don't think he knew what those two words but I think he can influence with with honor as my thing is, you know, getting people to do something they don't want to do kind of sounds like well, that well that's manipulation, you alerts leadership. And so for me a big part of the this archetypal project is it's authentic leaders ship to me or, you know, authentic innovation because of getting people to think in different ways to to accomplish an objective. So I like that definition of leadership is getting people to do things they don't want to do to accomplish something that they do want to accomplish, because a lot of times you don't, you don't know. And you're going to talk about until the time the billets are so Deluxe is another word for amateur. So I chose the both of these archetypes and then I've sort of combined them to because I'm not just an amateur athlete, but I like the idea of the dilettante means to delight in or the Latin root word is to delight in and so a dilettante is a lover of the fine art, who never rises above the level of amateur and who the phrase jack of all trades, master of none applies. So the world kind of has a negative connotation of the dabbler, you know, but the nice thing about amateurs for me I like to get, you know, lost like sports, it's, it's, it's funny, one of the one of the things I have about life is that you're either you're either in the stands, or you're on the field. And I think a lot of this theory and everything the other thing about the archetypes is that I've applied this to my life and work I use it for more self awareness, and connecting with people but if a dilettante has allowed me to explore a lot of passions, where I'm not an expert, and so I wanted to for this because I was thinking about this this archetype project. In the amateur the dabbling I've been doing is the I'm not a professional psychologist. And this archetypal work is kind of like it's based on Carl Jung's work and tapping into the power of your unconscious and the I have some Satori moments because attunement, you know, we will get a little bit more into attunement, but attunement is really practicing in all of the, the aspects of the archetypal path, we've talked about the worldview, you know, attuning your worldview, to, you know, basically reality, you know, and with the archetypes you can have things get away with you and, you know, bringing an awareness to what reality is. And there's a lot of ways to, to do a two minute meditation, you know, deep meditation focused concentration. For some people, I've never done like a three day silent retreat, but for me, any kind of three day and I tried to do it about once a quarter where you immerse with a group of people, led by somebody who's not an amateur. So I'll usually seek out somebody who is an expert on Qigong, or meditation, or even the shaman and I haven't done Ayahuasca yet, but I WASC is on the list of what you know, now it's becoming popularized and LSD experiments from the 60s that now are kind of coming back. It's a way of bringing yourself back into or like an awakening of some a new way of looking at things. So I've thought about this over the years in the awakenings I've had in, in the psychology realm. When I was at my first set, Tory, I was thinking when he one was time, like my reality was just shattered, and in something new. And when I was about five or six years old, there were some kids across the street that had kind of different parenting styles than my parents, my dad was was cop, Vietnam, that little minor PTSD, anger issues, and the kids across the street, their kid, their dad was like, it was like a motorhome salesman or something looked exciting, but you know, their dad was smoking a little weed or anything like that. And they had differences, but it was always fun to hang out and more fun to hang out with those guys. And once I'm we're buying stickers for our bicycles. And these guys were all picking out their stickers. And I picked out this this sticker. And it said, Ask grass or gas, nobody rides for free. I was like six years old. And there was a little green plant on it. And so it was awesome was like the outline and then it was in red. And then there was a little green. And the kids were like, yeah, yeah, get that one. Get that one. So when I had that sticker and my dad had like custom painted his bike for me and he got it you know out of the impound because he was caught but as soon as like, Dad, look it I got this new sticker for my bike and that sticker and is my step that my steps. I was one of those guys, he could just give you a look of terror. And I thought I was gonna die. And he didn't even say anything. And I thought it was cool. And it was like, Well, I was like, well guess it because it says as like, I didn't think you know my parents. They didn't I wasn't allowed to like cuss all the time. But ask was something you could say. And then I just thought it was an I love rhymes and everything. Um, I'm not a professional poet, but I mean as Krauser guys sounded pretty funny to me. My stepdad didn't think it was funny. And it was this feeling in my heart I'll never it was like your whole body like when your psychology changes and I'm like, oh my god this and he didn't I was really too young to explain the week.

I just knew he was pissed off in something In me had to change and, and the other thing had to do with the same. It's a little more funny story, but it's more about something. I mean, I had a friend Mike Cardoza, we were in kindergarten and there was a early reading group and a late reading group. And he was in the early reading group, so that always leave a little early. And Michael didn't have a bicycle, and he lived nearby. And so I said, Hey, man, he asked if he could borrow one time I go, Yeah, like the whole hour, that I'm still in school and you're out of school, you can just ride the bike, wherever and then you know, bring it back. And all right home. So he bought this little pad for the handlebars. And so I get on my cruise on my bike. And my dad's like, well, where'd you get the pad for the handlebars? Because he was thinking I was a six year old kid, he ripped it off, or it didn't get her anything. So I said, Well, microdose again, to me, it's like, yeah, why would somebody give you a pad if you know, just for whatever? And I was like, Well, it's because I let him ride my bike all around everything. Like that. He'll let some kid that you don't know. Take your bicycle. And I was just thinking like, yeah, we're friends. I mean, in the great thing is, Carlos and I are still friends to this day. We've been friends since kindergarten. But there was this thing, and it was a fear. And that's why say I'm not a professional psychologist, but it's one of the things do you look at in your life? And you're like, Man, I don't get why I gotta worry about who lending my bicycle out to a kid. You know, and, and as an adult, I can see can everybody's gonna steal your bicycle, right? Or if you're a cop, and all you deal with is stolen bicycles. And you think somebody loaning a bicycle out is is the worst thing can happen because it's obviously going to be stolen. And then my, my personal thing is, like, if you're generous, and you share things, no one's gonna steal off you. Because you're, you're generous, and they're not going to take advantage even the ones you do. It usually shows up in life. But you know, it only took me like 40 years to process that little s 41. You know, before I really got the full, you know, why was he so pissed off? And so that's why I'm not an expert in psychology, but I have done some psychology. And I'm not an expert on archetypes either in my Satori, one about that as a little more funny, but does that make sense? Jeremy the as grasser guests is the GM my father's

Jeremy Weisz 17:38

you have a great memory. I don't know if I can remember as far back

Mark Hiddleson 17:42

Well, I don't know if you remember when you're that scared. You know, I guess I got in. And I was just blown away is to me, it's like if you had a bicycle, and you and your friend needed to do and I still, to this day, I get in trouble. You know, the last time I got in troubles I loaned out are both to one of my subcontractors without getting permission. And that turned out worse than the Ask grass or get my ass was grass on that one. So the all of these kind of a tie together. So my archetype Satori was, in Satori is like an awakening, right? It's not anything. And sometimes you can meditate you go on a three week retreat, and nothing happens. And and another thing about attunement, you know, one of the main things is, well, there's two really is one is the idea that you've never arrived. So like the attunement process. It's just, it's just something you're always going to go through. It's kind of like a lifelong learner value. And the other thing is not to take it too seriously. Like some there's some people that that are just super expert, meditators, like I'm so good, and the idea isn't really to become a great, that's another reason why build a talk is awesome. Because if you get too much into the practice of attunement, then then you're not doing the right thing. The really thing is to, to just awaken, integrate, and then do something, you know, with whatever you've learned, put it into use. So my archetype one is I was doing a three week three day I can say, first class I ever did, it was the archetypes of healing at JFK University. And it was the it was a Friday, Saturday, Sunday class, and we come back for like a Monday thing, but on Saturday, halfway through this constructor of psycho archetypes and Carl Jung, and when the archetype archetype and I had to raise my hand on Saturday, and it was one of those things where there's no there's no dumb question, right? They say if if you're anything, especially a mastermind, especially something you're trying to raise everybody's consciousness level, but it had gone too far, because I didn't know what he meant by archetype. So Oh, by Saturday, raising my hand, I just see what, what's an archetype. And it was really, it was embarrassing, but I thought, Man, this is a three day class, if I don't ask now. I'm never gonna get anything. And I was getting something out of it, there was bromine, and there was chanting, and there was everything. But uh, and he gave a really good definition that there are patterns, it's a pattern that are ongoing, and they were more talking about the hero, the masculine and feminine, you know, some of the more popular archetypes, you know, there's hundreds and hundreds. And the hero is the one we see the most in, in movies. And it's the, if you could see a symptom of where we're at on the archetypal spectrum as a culture, if you look at the way the superhero movies have taken off, and it is in our culture is infatuated with that. Hero buff, you know, and now they've added it's not just buff, white guys, there's every single everything of archetypes for the hero, it's women, it's all different cultures, it's all different everything. And you sometimes see the shadow in the movies, but usually it's the bad guy is that is the shadow. And then it's the good guy is is the hero. So the other thing, I'm not a I'm not a professional researcher, but I love doing research. And so what I love is I can get in conversations with people who are like, if I see somebody, they're an expert in transpersonal psychology or they're expert in like, I'd love to have a conversation with Jordan Peterson and he's one of the people I mean, I think he's when I was in college, that was probably Stephen Covey, because he wrote the seven habits, and it was like one of those business books that everybody was reading and Jordan Peterson, I think is that just because he's so popular? Have you heard you've heard of Jordan Peterson? Yeah, I had I had a meeting. And it's like in our business, like, it's, like a lot of people haven't heard of Jordan Peterson and I was, I brought this up and we had a group there was probably five or six people. And only one knew he was well, I know who he is. I really couldn't tell you anything about it. But he, in his interviews one time, he the people that says he surprises people, because he'll say that we all have this shadow side and the example he always uses Hitler as an example. I think this because he studied Jung so much that Jung was worried about in Jordan Peterson Yeah, we all have this shadow side of our personality, that if if you trigger it, and you think about like, for me, I think about what I would do if my kids were in danger, like the the list of behaviors on what I think is acceptable, it kind of goes exponential when I think of protecting something that I love, or some if I feel threatened. And Jordan Peterson was like, Yeah, you have to deal with that shadow. And he's, he's one of his main criticisms of psychology is that we don't, we don't take the shadows seriously. And then they really is. And because the subconscious is so much of, you know, so much of what we do in life is on autopilot is based on our subconscious unconscious tendencies that you have to be able to identify and integrate both the light and shadow types of the archetype is, is an important skill. So I'm not a professional athlete either. And that that goes back to the things you're there in the stands or on the field. And my criticism of myself is even when I'm in the stands, and I'm not an athlete, I feel like I'm participating in the game. Right? It's like, I know, I know what plays they should be running on first down. I know what they should go for it on fourth down, I know. And he was part of that shadow side of because I played high school sports a little bit of junior college that that I'm a expert on it. That's what makes it so it makes it fun.

Jeremy Weisz 24:15

The you're talking about the shadow and the shadow of the athlete?

Mark Hiddleson 24:19

Yeah. So the so the shadow of the of the athlete is overtraining and we talked about a little about that and integral effort with the saboteur. It's something that it really ended my athletic career is, you know, the athlete there's this there's value and lots of special this weekend on Tony Romo and I'm a big Tony Romo fan. You never want any Super Bowls and that's kind of what they judge people by in football as a quarterback. It's it's kind of sad because you look at people can have an amazing career. Set all kinds of records, be an amazing gift to the sport. And then people will judge them based on on Super Bowls, which it's really it's a team sport. And then there's a lot of things that have to happen to to get to that. But his he was talking about as a kid and then identify so much with this, but he said he had a just a passion for practicing, that he would throw football so many times a day more than anybody else. So a lot of what that, you know, he obviously to be a professional athlete, there's natural gifts you have to have, and you serve people, you're not making it in just because of the DNA. But there's this other thing of just constantly practice. And they he wanted to do basketball first. So they had a basket. And I was the same way, when I was a kid, I was the best basketball player, kind of because I was a little bit bigger. But I was you know, if somebody was taking shooting 10 baskets a day, I was shooting 100 or 1000. You know, we just sit out there and it'll be dark outside. And his folks are saying the same thing. It's 12. It's midnight, and he hears this don't don't chain, don't don't chain like a Tony, were trying to sleep in here. So that obsessiveness and obsessive practice, you know, without good coaching and attunement of your body. It's easy to overtrain and, and then the other thing is overconfidence. And I talked a little bit about that already. And confidence is good. I think that's what Jordan Peterson is rule number one of his 12 rules for life is stand up straight with your shoulders back. That's, it's kind of it's a confidence thing, but it can go you know, too far, you know, the athlete, just because you're an athlete doesn't mean you know, you, you're entitled to anything else. So I did something to for us to admire. And I think I didn't think is we evolved and and this is my this is my utopian theory of shooting for the sky, I really, you know, I hope that someday maybe to my kids generation, their kids journeys with the athletes sort of replaces the warrior, as an ethic of how we deal with things because we won't have to kill people, so that everybody can get what they want. So that's kind of for me, it's the highest, but it has to be integrated, and it can't, you know, in order for the athlete to be that, you know, has to be a balance of of that competition, which is another thing. But it's healthy practice, and then balancing with humility and grace, you know that, and I think a lot of athletes, it's changed over the years. And you'll still see I think it's the exception. Most athletes if if you watch a press conference, and I like to watch press press conference, because journalists are usually good, and they'll try to ask gotcha questions, and they'll know that they got somebody, and then they get them sometimes. These athletes are 20 year old kids, and they're dealing with journalists who went to school. And that's all they do is to ask gotcha questions, and then they get them sometimes. But I'm usually surprised like, man, these guys, they're either they're making millions of dollars and gifted bodies, gifted athletes a lot of success. And then they're mostly, you know, I think there's a lot of humility and grace, it doesn't get highlighted as much as the other ones because it's it's not as much fun. That's the, the shadow the shadow part of that athlete archetype.

Jeremy Weisz 28:10

Talking about the attunement part, you know, why does generating attunement, and you talk about this concept of kind of archetypal freedom?

Mark Hiddleson 28:22

Yeah, so it's like, why does it matter? Right? Why why do you want to do this archetypal practice or do anything and you know, the, when you embrace some of the shadow and the start to balance some of these things and see it through attunement. And you start to see some of the stories that you tell yourselves on and on, over and over. And then once you recognize those stories, they have less effective on you. So you really can be more authentic, and read the room as a new thing that I'm hearing that that people can do, they can read the read the room, or know who you're dealing with. And so just gives you more access to your whole you know, person innovation, then maybe changing the way you approach something and you get this story about my friend Jack, in the in the body's like a battery. He has this the gyro mahari has a appeal 365, which is personal lifestyle 365. So he is an expert in like, peak training. Peak. Performance is funny, the it's it's the practices peak performance, but the first like the first module is sleep. It's like okay, jam, you're gonna get there. You're gonna talk about peak performance. We're gonna do all these things like the number one component of his module, and it's the basic everything's based on sleep because we're basically we're energy in your body is an instrument for working with energy bodies. is full of energy. And jams we were in a sort of a word mastermind is the best word to describe it, but I'm trying to think deep into masterminds or you have a better word for like collective intelligence, collective intelligence optimization team or it's probably because people get the wrong all mastermind who get to go to a mastermind, but it you know, it's a group of people who are all trying to improve, basically do the attunement process, it's a it's a collective way of doing it. It's very powerful. Because everybody, you know, there's usually a leader in a mastermind, but but it's the other participants in it, who all add something. And in the first it was Napoleon Hill, we keep bringing him up on this podcast, the first time I saw it was in his car, he studied the 500 most successful people of the 1900s. And one thing he saw that they had in common is that they The other thing I like to call is they had access to distributed cognition, have heard that as a networking for you know, it's networking, but what you're doing is, is you're with other leaders, and you're leading each other and so everybody's kind of leading ever but anyways, he had this thing is your body is a battery, he was saying your body is a battery, and I was art, I was challenging them. As humans body isn't a battery, your body has a lot of the properties of a battery, but your body is way more I mean, your your whole consciousness is tied to. So you know, we did agree, and it's funny changes, it's not everyone needs to take his bill 365 Because it will say the body, the body has all the properties of a battery. And, but we basically are energy and that that's jams point. And then, you know, as instruments or bodies are full of energy, we're tuned into frequencies. And I mentioned Vicki at the beginning. That's one of the reasons I want to mentor you, Vicki Dello Joio, she's a Qi Gong master, and she talks about wei qi, which is that energy field when the when somebody walks into a room and she trains a lot of speakers, and she's trains speakers to own their energy because there is something there good vibes and everyone's felt bad vibes, you know, there's, there's a person that walks into the room, and you know, you want to you're attracted to him. And then there's also the person that that gives off a bad vibes. And it's kind of like, oh, just I want to, I want to stay stay away. So. So Gemini, we both agree that that we are quote unquote, energy. And then this idea of integral attunement, you know, it optimizes our potentials on worldview, our vision, our you know, when you take action, I mean, all the things that we've talked about in the previous integral speech is because when you say things you'll feel you'll know, you'll feel something inside, you know, there's a practice where you'll say, a word and then you'll see how you feel you're like, Well, I don't feel good saying that, or I'm not going to. So attunement is is ongoing, optimizing, you know, where your energy the other thing is with without awareness of the shadow archetypes they can take on, you know, you're off to the races in your mind. And that can eat up a lot of your energy. If you have anxiety about stories that you keep telling yourself. And it's because you haven't addressed some of these shadow archetypes or their sphere, or you're not in the present moment, you're either in the past or the future. And being in an archetypal freedom, meaning you're not going to go the way the ups and downs we've kind of talked about that last week, there's a cultural ups and downs, body has ups and downs, your moods have ups and downs. But if you're in attunement, you're you're kind of pulling away from that roller coaster and towards your full potential. You know,

Jeremy Weisz 33:50

Mark talks about, you know, with all this, there's a transformation that occurs, or at least a goal of transformation. So talk about creating that we're giving the opportunity to create that transformation.

Mark Hiddleson 34:07

So creating the container, and I'm gonna read this Zen poem, and I have added a few of these I haven't, I haven't always but I typed this. I was looking for a poem for this part of explain because the idea of container you know, creating the possibility this is kind of like your worldviews is I can create a container but I wanted to read this, this poem, and the thing about Zen poems or Conan's is that they're, they're like, unsolvable riddles. And then they're really just meant to ponder and sit in wait for an opening. And like my Cohen, for me personally in writing this work is why is there such a huge gap between human potential and the human condition? You want to see what people are capable of and then Then will you walk around the world you look around, you're like, Man, this guy He's everywhere. Everyone's pissed off. We have all these elite, we can be loaning our bicycles to each other, right and trading funny stickers. But I wrote this there was an airplane buzzing overhead. While I type, my mindset free in the Dharma realm. I said, a moon filled window, watching the mountains with my ears, hearing the stream with open eyes. Each molecule preaches perfect law. Each moment, chance, true sutra, the most fleeting thought is timeless. A single hair is enough to stir the sea. And that certain by shittaka was like 13 1300. So he lived in the 14th century. And it's from a book of poetry. Let the spring breeze enter. And to me, you know, hearing, hearing with your eyes, is it's opening up a set of possibilities. And that reminds me and when I hope you introduce me to somebody who's who's has been silent since they were born, they're still accomplishing amazing things. And to me, that's somebody I think, is hearing with their eyes. They're seeing with their ears. They're creating a container for what's possible, that I'm talking about Dr. Hobi, that you introduced me, and I hope he's going to be he's going to be on future shows. And it's going to be real soon. We didn't we didn't connect last week. But we'll connect this week. But creating, you know, that poem, it doesn't make any sense. But it makes all the sense in the world, if you open up to it, and a single hairs enough to start to see, it's kind of the same thing as the butterfly effect. And is the butterfly effect that movie? Or is it Yeah, it's a movie. So it's a movie. And I haven't seen the movie. But we got in a an argument. It's funny, any more of these arguments can be solved by Google. But I was at a rock concert. And I said no butterfly effect. It's like a scientific thing that the wind from the wings of a butterfly can actually cause like a tornado. somewhere else. Have you heard it like that?

Jeremy Weisz 37:25

I haven't heard like that. No, just that it could change the course of something else. That's like a ripple effect,

Mark Hiddleson 37:33

the ripple effect. And that's, that's what and so I think the butterfly effect movie uses some idea of that ripple effect. But it is but that there is a thing, and I'm not an expert on it. But the butterfly effect is actually the wind from you know, that small, but it is the ripple effect. And then those pawn you know, when you drop a pebble in a pond, it ripples out. But that's the idea of, you know, creating a container. And it's more, you know, the first thing about the container is with transformational. And we talked a little bit last, the last podcast that we did, and I'm losing and what, what we're talking about what he does talk about, it's more of a emptying. It's not a bunch of more knowledge. I mean, there's so much knowledge out there, if you just keep adding to what you think, you know, it's education. And I think this is a JFK, quote. But education is the fanning of a flame. It's not the filling of a vessel, or it's not the filling of a vessel. It's the fanning of a flame. And that transformational container, you're not really trying to add more to this container of knowledge. But there's just so much in some of this, in these Satori, moments, like the big things that will come to people, and I've read a lot about these I've been I've had on shared and I was just gonna share a few of what that emptying process for me, is, it usually comes in, in the form of man. You need to I need to forgive somebody for something. I mean, my first there's this thing, it's funny and Freudian. And again, I'm not a psychologist, but I've studied for a long time, like the whole Freudian psychotherapy was he figured out that everyone was messed up because their parents was like, you go to Freitas, like, you're very like, Okay, well, I'm just the way I am because my parents are that way. It's proven is but the funny thing Freud he discovered the subconscious, but none of his like, none of his practices or anything or therapies have proven to work like he discovered what's going on. But then so the new thing is Instead of blaming me for like, I've figured it out, and then every time you go to Thanksgiving, you're like, Hey, look at I'm just like this. Because this, and it's true because any family now it's funny because I'm the dad. It's not, it's, thank God, I have the clown archetype, because it wouldn't be as funny. Because I look at my kids. And I mean, there's a lot of good things they're emulated. And they do all the all the good stuff, but the little ticks and the little, they'll never forget, come home from work one time and look in and like, man, like, why are all these shoes just scattered all over the ground in the front of the front foyer, as it's the same time I'm kicking off my shoes? And like I said, Did you really just say that? But the new the transformation container is that you find these things and you say, Well, this is just the way things turned out. Because this happened in my life, or, you know, this explains it. So I'm just like that. So, you know, transformation, instead of just accepting the way things turned out the way they are. A lot of it has to do with and the things that have come to me inside of the tree. It's like, wow, I need to forgive. You know, my parents who will Why did I you know, why would I have any resentment towards my folks, you know, my story, everybody has a different story. And in a lot of ways, you know, because I was an athlete, I thought, I thought I had it, even though not all of this stuff mattered. But you don't have to have my dad on the podcast we have we went through areas where things didn't have that picture wasn't so rosy. And my dad lost his dad at a really young age. When I turned 18, I got injured, I wasn't getting the sports scholarship. My dad always said, you know, no matter what, even though his my mom had been divorced, since I was like, two, he'd pay for my college. And then my dad got sick. When I went to college, and nothing really happened kind of got in a fight with my mom took me off the insurance the day I turned 18, even though I was still in high school, that never helped me with school. So I was kind of pissed, right? I mean, as a, as a kid would be. And I was athletes, I thought it was entitled, all the all the things were working. But, you know, I was pissed. And I'm not talking about like, for a month or 90 days or anything, you know, there were 10 year periods in my life, you know, where I wasn't really on good terms with my dad, and there. You know, there came to a point where it's like, I'm holding on to all this stuff. And it's not doing me any good. It's not doing my dad and get in the way, the way my dad kept the relationship open is he had his dirty jokes, emails that he would send, there was like, and it's, uh, I was always, I always kind of put that down like, Oh, really, this, this is the best way, you know, you can stay in touch with your kid. But it kept the door open. So it wasn't like the communication was close, it was only going one way. And it's funny. The only time I ever reacted to it was, and this was years ago, this was when Bill Clinton must have been running for president or something in that era. And there was some political thing about the Kennedys was like now that I'm older, and I see like these political things just fly back and forth. And they're pretty much you can jump at any time. And everybody said, No, but I thought this was like a specific thing. Directed and I just jumped on it. And I killed my dad. And it was my, that was probably 20 years ago. And my political views have probably changed 180 degrees since the end, but I gave a just kind of a good response, you know, for like somebody who just graduated from college, and my dad was just kind of like, wow, like, it's not that big of a deal. It wasn't serious. Like, these are just jokes, we're just sending it back and forth. He didn't have to take the bait, but I did. That when I finally talked to my dad, and I was like, man, you know, you just left me and I had to do everything on my own. And you know, why didn't you give me more help my dad, just what he just went, Wow, he goes, Man goes because I thought you had it. He goes, always just thought you can take care of it. And it hit me because I was thinking in my life. That's all I ever wanted, was for people to think that I had it. And here I'm resenting this guy, he's my dad. And he was going you had it, like, I got sick. I couldn't help you in and you just you had it so I find it you know, I still get emotional. I thought I could tell the story and just laugh about it. But so I had the thing is about forgiving my dad I had to give my son forgive myself first. And that's the hardest thing is us like what the fuck forgive myself for what? What I did, I went to school I got three jobs I did like Agana for like a year. And so whenever you get into this, why am I going to forgive myself? It's like, oh, I forgive myself for acting like this for being going 10 years. And so that was the biggest thing I had to forgive myself. It's like, Why did I wait 10 years to, to clear the air, you know, to forgive myself for doing it however I did, and that was kind of because I did it the way I did it, I was kind of a rogue right, I didn't take shit from anybody. Because I had the shadow side of the archetype. The, you know, to solve my parents for gave me permission, because at that time in my defense in that time, I hadn't I only studied Freud, saying your parents are the problem. And so the other one that I've had a big one recently is that I had my aunt that we were restrained. When my grandmother passed away, there was a big thing happened with our family. This is another thing like things happen in generations. And it causes it makes no sense whatsoever. It all was like when everything's going smooth. People are having Christmas parties and everybody keeps showing up. But something bad happens. Somebody gets sick, somebody dies, somebody and my grandmother, who, you know, my grandparents are the most, like, look up to them that put them on a pedestal. And I'd say my grandfather was the wealthiest man I ever knew. And he's not because he had money is this because of the kind of person he was he was generously he will he would have loaned out his bicycle. My grandpa wouldn't have been mad at me. Because he gave and he grew up through the Depression. You know, they grew their own food, they had access to my aunt. You know, and things happen when my grandmother died. And she there was confusion about who was supposed to take over. But anything our family kind of divided in this thing, and my aunt was on one side of it. And I really blamed her for all of it. Right? And well, you're supposed to be running this thing. I tried to help her. You know what she's thinking marquee, the 18 year old. College, pot smoker, marquee, the 40 year old business owner, mastermind owner, President, you know where else education is rich with counsel attorneys. I could have helped her. But she didn't really look at it. So I resented her. And again, it was it was 10 years. And that is a three, you know, a few years ago, I think it was it was right before the I haven't thought of my favorite word for the pandemic, but the Panini, the panini press, right before the panini press, I did a three day it was actually it was a five day retreat, and opening and creating this container, right? Because in the container for 10 years, the idea of making a place for my hand or forgiving. And then the other thing is I couldn't forgive myself because I was like, forgive myself from what I did everything I know, got on that same thing. But we took a situation that was impossible. I mean, nobody in our family would have said, Mark, you know, and my aunt's name is Jeanette, they never would have said these two people are going to come together and then they're going to find a way. And, you know, really, again, through a process of self forgiveness, and it's like, well forgive myself for what you know. And I went through a year. And you know, you can write letters, that's one of the things in this part of this workshop is you take a person that you were, you know that you really should be, I should have been in relationship with my aunt, she was my hero. When I was young. She wrote a book about me when I was five years old. She she took she always you know, was she gave me that knight in shining armor archetype to live up to. And there was no, you know, there was a lot of bad shit that happened with our family. But the thing is, you know, I had, I was I had a part in that, you know, my mindset. It was open. And again, I waited 10 years, you know, the biggest thing I had to forgive myself for is like, Why did I wait so long? And why did I not give her a chance like this other thing? You write these letters, and you give it to the people and they look at the letter and they're like, No, this isn't an apology that says the apology is like, I'm sorry that you're such a loser, that you make me so angry that a lot of people that substitutes for an apology, right is the same Well, I'm afraid I'm sorry. You make me act that way. And so it uh, it was a huge one of the things I'm most proud of in my life. And you know, my aunt is we have a really good reputation or relationship. We don't have a great reputation in our family, but we will have a great reputation and there's even you know, she's estranged from her kids and everything and they really don't want to have anything to do with her but you know, I'm home fool that our relationship and it's been about a year that I've been talking to her I call her, she's 80 years old. So thinks is she's all alone too. So for a lot of me it was compassion, right? It's like, I have to make this work. Because I don't want this person who was such a great, you know, made a great contribution to my life. And I don't want just because this, you know, everything didn't work out with my grandma. And she didn't do things the way anybody wanted her to. And really, nobody's seen things from her perspective. Like, she felt like she had no choice than to do things this way. You know, her, her knight in shining armor archetype took over because she looked at this as a container for what she'd done her whole life. And it's like, I'm gonna have to keep doing this my whole life. This is what happened this, my parents gave me a situation that was unsolvable. And now I have to solve it my way. And, you know, I didn't see it that way. 10 years ago, but it has generated and then when, when you make those when you make those phone calls and the letters in the in Viki bubble and I, when I asked Vicky Dillard Joe, she had a similar situation with her father. And she shared very powerfully on on the podcasts, that she wrote a letter and she was working with a professional who helps people, you know, reconcile with their parents. And she kept given the left for a year. I mean, here's a master energy teacher, chi, Gong expert, enlighten martial artists master, like somebody, you go in your presence, you automatically fall in love. But when it came to writing letter for dad, and the person who has worked with it took a year because he would give it to us like, Okay, I wrote it as a good apology. Blade was like, No, this isn't, you're still blaming your dad for the reason. You're the way you are. And so, you know, doing this, like, why do that because there's this huge opening. Now it's an opening for me where I was closed, where I was this kind of in and protecting myself. There's an opening, and the only the other relationship that I've had to work with to repair is my old boss. When I started my company, he was really pissed off. And because I was I was the golden child, I was leading sales, and I've shared the story in other podcasts, I won't go into it. But he felt like there was a betrayal. And I definitely always saw where he was coming from the way I tried to leave. I didn't take a bunch of clients with me all the projects that I had going, you know, a lot of people in our business, if they're going to start a new company, or they're a contract or anything, like about 60 to 90 days, or six months before they quit, they'll start moving deals over to their new company. And I did the opposite of that as anything I have going anything I've quoted. I was there only two months, that sort of thing. It took me two months to start my own company. I said in these two months, I'm closing every single deal. I'm collecting all because you didn't get paid till you collect it to your collector, there was some self serving. But I'm going to do everything the right way. And when I left, I gave him a list. I said, here's everything I'm quoting was $300,000 worth of deals. But even with all that, he was still and it took us about eight years. And I think he won, he finally went to three now actually, he didn't go to a three day retreat. Here's the thing, and I'm gonna have Ross, his name is Ross Clark. He's one of my best mentors I've ever had. But they had a because there were other employees. I was friends with a lot of employees there. I mean, we've I was there for eight years, we went on vacations together, we did masterminds together, we build businesses together. And so they wanted me they wanted to be able to do projects with me, because there were things like, Hey, I set this up to where we could be collaborators and not really competitors. And it took eight years and my boss invited me to lunch. And you know, I'd send them emails on Thanksgiving. Yeah, that's what you do, too. And I'll give people here's a hand if if there's somebody you need to write a letter to doing Thanksgiving, and doing gratitude. I've talked about gratitude on that, like whoever you're pissed off at, in a matter, like if somebody doesn't matter, you know, they don't matter, but whatever. But if it's a parent, you know, and Ross was kind of like a father figure. He was a boss, as a mentor. As a parent and with somebody that's important. Thanksgiving is a good time to just list off the things you're thankful for, for that person. So I did a few Thanksgivings. And they got rebuffed, but he finally invited me to lunch. And I wanted to know, and I was gonna ask the question, like, how, what was your Satori moment, right, what was your Satori moment? And I said, Let me guess. You had your strategic committee meeting, and there's five people and they voted three to two that he should have lunch with me. He goes, I'm not gonna say I go and you voted no. Because I'm not gonna I'm not gonna say anything. But that's pretty much what happens is everybody else said, we got to do this and Amen. His To his credit, he's the type of leader, authentic leader. If his team says this is a good idea, even though it wasn't his idea, he stepped in he did it. We've reconciled and now we need to try to meet once a quarter, but it's funny when things get going so good that it's usually twice a year that we meet and get lunch scheduled for next week. So I'm looking forward

Jeremy Weisz 55:22

to this March. I know we're right at the time. So this is great. We'll definitely pick up this conversation on the net next episode. But thanks for sharing all those stories. For me, it was valuable. Hopefully everyone listening is valuable as well. And integral attunement. Thank you.

Mark Hiddleson 55:42

Yeah. Thanks, Jeremy. Awesome.

Outro 55:44

Thanks for listening to The Tao of Pizza Podcast. We'll see you again next time and be sure to click Subscribe to get future episodes.


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